When is a man, a real man?

[Luv2LafMcc]

Originally Posted by Sherriism

So we agree then that the benign dismissal of a different colored Warrior is JUST the same as the benign dismissal of different religious statements. Both holding the same ultimate value.

Originally Posted by gchalifo

I think so Sherriism...I like what I like, and you like what you like, and if we happen to like the same thing, that's cool...

Intellectually, ethically, morally, theologically and even historically, I couldn't disagree more gchalifo. A person's GOD belief is not the same as the color selection of their bike. There are no stories of great battles waged over the color of people's chariots...There are COUNTLESS stories of people battling, repeatedly, over God beliefs and Core beliefs. Go to South Central LA and wear RED in the BLUE part of town...Walk down the Palestinian side of the Gaza Strip with ANY color yamaka on...

I am calling BS on that answer gchalifo. Its irresponsible to suggest it. If I told you that all the answers to your life challenges, and your son's challenges, could have been avoided with Pearl Iridescent Polka Doted Paint, How would you take that? How would you then take me as a person? If others on the site agreed with the power of the Pearl Iridescent Polka Doted Paint, might you feel ostracized? Might you shy away from talking about your bike with/in a place where you didnt feel you belonged?

Here, if you like warrior motorcycle's, you belong.

No Sherri, "I" do not believe that anyone would honestly react identically to a person dismissing their bike color, as opposed to dismissing a persons core belief, life structuring, family guiding ideals of a God, Gods or even if a god exists. Not the same by a long shot.

The ending word "cool" of gchalofo's sentence is the part where the problem begins. this is not an attack of gchalofo, but of a scenario that is as charged and polarizing as "God", and Faith. What happens if its uncool?...not the popular consensus? The "nerd" of the religious group?

Originally Posted by gchalifo

...but when I trash someone for what they like because I don't like it, then that's just not right

gchalifo nails it here: I agree with this 100%. But what if another doesn't? Is it that out of place to think that there might be someone here that is not tolerant, open minded, accepting? Perhaps they might not have a "way with words"...or, perhaps they do, and don't give a d@mn as they simply think that you are "wrong" or "need salvation". Lets avoid the whole sh'bang...

I think that this warrior motorcycle forum, is a place that we all check our "$HIT" at the door, and come in to try to exchanges ideas and concepts and OPINIONS ON WARRIOR MOTORCYCLES. There are many other topics that as a community, we cant help but touch on, but we have to censor our selves or we start to loose site of the unifying "warrior motorcycle" subject.

gchalifo, I get it, you care about your place and membership here in this warrior forum, as we appreciate you being part of it. Its that very appreciation that you have to be aware of and keep in check; Let me explain: You care about us, you have beliefs and practices that matter to you, and work for you, and you want to share and "save" us from what you think is trouble.

You wouldn't be a good person if you didn't want to help your fellow person avoid a $hitstorm. Just look at how many people have posted about the dangers of using a car tire on a bike vs the savings of using a car tire on a bike. At the very least, this tire argument is directly pertinent to warrior motorcycles.

My point is: God, Gods, No-God and Politics should be off topics on a warrior motorcycle forum.

I do have the right to just "move on", but why cant we all just color within the few lines we have? We enjoy a lot of latitude here for a wide band of discussions...and i value and take advantage of it ( shameless plug link ) as it keeps us interesting.

I just think that we'll be able to enjoy the diverse bounty of this warrior/motorcycle Eden, if we don't eat from the tree of God's and Politics.

[Sherriism]

Originally Posted by Luv2LafMcc

Intellectually, ethically, morally, theologically and even historically, I couldn't disagree more gchalifo. A person's GOD belief is not the same as the color selection of their bike. There are no stories of great battles waged over the color of people's chariots...There are COUNTLESS stories of people battling, repeatedly, over God beliefs and Core beliefs. Go to South Central LA and wear RED in the BLUE part of town...Walk down the Palestinian side of the Gaza Strip with ANY color yamaka on...

I am calling BS on that answer gchalifo. Its irresponsible to suggest it. If I told you that all the answers to your life challenges, and your son's challenges, could have been avoided with Pearl Iridescent Polka Doted Paint, How would you take that? How would you then take me as a person? If others on the site agreed with the power of the Pearl Iridescent Polka Doted Paint, might you feel ostracized? Might you shy away from talking about your bike with/in a place where you didnt feel you belonged?

Here, if you like warrior motorcycle's, you belong.

No Sherri, "I" do not believe that anyone would honestly react identically to a person dismissing their bike color, as opposed to dismissing a persons core belief, life structuring, family guiding ideals of a God, Gods or even if a god exists. Not the same by a long shot.

The ending word "cool" of gchalofo's sentence is the part where the problem begins. this is not an attack of gchalofo, but of a scenario that is as charged and polarizing as "God", and Faith. What happens if its uncool?...not the popular consensus? The "nerd" of the religious group?




gchalifo nails it here: I agree with this 100%. But what if another doesn't? Is it that out of place to think that there might be someone here that is not tolerant, open minded, accepting? Perhaps they might not have a "way with words"...or, perhaps they do, and don't give a d@mn as they simply think that you are "wrong" or "need salvation". Lets avoid the whole sh'bang...

I think that this warrior motorcycle forum, is a place that we all check our "$HIT" at the door, and come in to try to exchanges ideas and concepts and OPINIONS ON WARRIOR MOTORCYCLES. There are many other topics that as a community, we cant help but touch on, but we have to censor our selves or we start to loose site of the unifying "warrior motorcycle" subject.

gchalifo, I get it, you care about your place and membership here in this warrior forum, as we appreciate you being part of it. Its that very appreciation that you have to be aware of and keep in check; Let me explain: You care about us, you have beliefs and practices that matter to you, and work for you, and you want to share and "save" us from what you think is trouble.

You wouldn't be a good person if you didn't want to help your fellow person avoid a $hitstorm. Just look at how many people have posted about the dangers of using a car tire on a bike vs the savings of using a car tire on a bike. At the very least, this tire argument is directly pertinent to warrior motorcycles.

My point is: God, Gods, No-God and Politics should be off topics on a warrior motorcycle forum.

I do have the right to just "move on", but why cant we all just color within the few lines we have? We enjoy a lot of latitude here for a wide band of discussions...and i value and take advantage of it ( shameless plug link ) as it keeps us interesting.

I just think that we'll be able to enjoy the diverse bounty of this warrior/motorcycle Eden, if we don't eat from the tree of God's and Politics.

My post was deleted due to me quoting a political statement oops.
My response to Doc S's reply was misunderstood. I actually completely agree with you.

In my response to everyone I said:
"I think we are on two different pages gchalifo I was making a statement regarding the dismisal of two things that are NOT on the same level of sensitivity....apparently Yams are now thrown in as well.

I wanted to post my thought and a little something about my father here, but I avoided doing so because it had become so religious. Then I saw the reaction to *Luv2LafMcc*'s opinion and I had to chime in. His view is valid and it is obvious he has respect for everyone here, but that has not necessarily been recipricated.

I agree that if you don't like something, then pass it over... but part of the reason I feel in love with this forum and it's members is because there was a lack of political/religious rhetoric. Which can incite people. Just like this has turned into... quod erat demonstandum."

[gchalifo]

I have to agree brother...again, I credit your statements and thoughts....and appreciate your feedback. I think it's safe to say we have slid off topic, and either we get back on it or let this one die on the vine? what do you think?

[gchalifo]

just went back and deleted my statement that I believe may have side tracked this post. Sorry gang!, should have checked that **** at the door.....need to think before I type more....

[LeaderDuece]

Originally Posted by Luv2LafMcc

Intellectually, ethically, morally, theologically and even historically, I couldn't disagree more gchalifo. A person's GOD belief is not the same as the color selection of their bike. There are no stories of great battles waged over the color of people's chariots...There are COUNTLESS stories of people battling, repeatedly, over God beliefs and Core beliefs. Go to South Central LA and wear RED in the BLUE part of town...Walk down the Palestinian side of the Gaza Strip with ANY color yamaka on...

I am calling BS on that answer gchalifo. Its irresponsible to suggest it. If I told you that all the answers to your life challenges, and your son's challenges, could have been avoided with Pearl Iridescent Polka Doted Paint, How would you take that? How would you then take me as a person? If others on the site agreed with the power of the Pearl Iridescent Polka Doted Paint, might you feel ostracized? Might you shy away from talking about your bike with/in a place where you didnt feel you belonged?

Here, if you like warrior motorcycle's, you belong.

No Sherri, "I" do not believe that anyone would honestly react identically to a person dismissing their bike color, as opposed to dismissing a persons core belief, life structuring, family guiding ideals of a God, Gods or even if a god exists. Not the same by a long shot.

The ending word "cool" of gchalofo's sentence is the part where the problem begins. this is not an attack of gchalofo, but of a scenario that is as charged and polarizing as "God", and Faith. What happens if its uncool?...not the popular consensus? The "nerd" of the religious group?




gchalifo nails it here: I agree with this 100%. But what if another doesn't? Is it that out of place to think that there might be someone here that is not tolerant, open minded, accepting? Perhaps they might not have a "way with words"...or, perhaps they do, and don't give a d@mn as they simply think that you are "wrong" or "need salvation". Lets avoid the whole sh'bang...

I think that this warrior motorcycle forum, is a place that we all check our "$HIT" at the door, and come in to try to exchanges ideas and concepts and OPINIONS ON WARRIOR MOTORCYCLES. There are many other topics that as a community, we cant help but touch on, but we have to censor our selves or we start to loose site of the unifying "warrior motorcycle" subject.

gchalifo, I get it, you care about your place and membership here in this warrior forum, as we appreciate you being part of it. Its that very appreciation that you have to be aware of and keep in check; Let me explain: You care about us, you have beliefs and practices that matter to you, and work for you, and you want to share and "save" us from what you think is trouble.

You wouldn't be a good person if you didn't want to help your fellow person avoid a $hitstorm. Just look at how many people have posted about the dangers of using a car tire on a bike vs the savings of using a car tire on a bike. At the very least, this tire argument is directly pertinent to warrior motorcycles.

My point is: God, Gods, No-God and Politics should be off topics on a warrior motorcycle forum.

I do have the right to just "move on", but why cant we all just color within the few lines we have? We enjoy a lot of latitude here for a wide band of discussions...and i value and take advantage of it ( shameless plug link ) as it keeps us interesting.

I just think that we'll be able to enjoy the diverse bounty of this warrior/motorcycle Eden, if we don't eat from the tree of God's and Politics.

I was thinking that the only person who seems to have a problem with the religious undertones of this thread is you my friend. You've pointed out several times that people could misconstrue/get offended/post polarizing posts, but you're the only one who seems to be making an issue of it. Both Sherry and Gary have tried to downplay it and say in effect "let's move on, because nobody seems to be worried or offended about it," but you won't really let them. And in the end, your opinion has finally come out -after stating that "some people" might get offended etc. you eventually state that you're talking about you -when you state that "My point is: God, Gods, No-God and Politics should be off topics on a warrior motorcycle forum."

Politics is already off limit, so please don't try to muddy the waters or ruin this great thread with politics. If you don't like the religious aspect of it, then simply walk away. You've done a great job of not being confrontational, and I respect that, but if you keep poking, eventually it will turn ugly, and that will be sad, because there are some great ideas being posted here. Some of those ideas (such as mine) DO include God, and that should be ok.

That's just how I see it, I am not speaking for anyone else.

[californiacruiser]

So the food thread bites the dust too?

No, I agree with the moderators on this one, we should be able to have a civil discussion and if we can't, then action is taken. I am against censorship in any form; it requires someone in some position of authority to make a judgement call, and that my friends is a slippery slope to put it mildly.

There doesn't seem to be any real animosity here, we all respect each other so let's not invite more rules, or cut off avenues of discussion prematurely. If this thread isn't your "thing" no big deal, just find one that is.

[Luv2LafMcc]

I am eager to read your post LD, as i value your 2 cent to be a bargain for 5 cents worth's of opinion! The game's afoot!

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

I was thinking that the only person who seems to have a problem with the religious undertones of this thread is you my friend. You've pointed out several times that people could misconstrue/get offended/post polarizing posts, but you're the only one who seems to be making an issue of it.

2 things: I think this thread has evolved a bit from what the initial impetus. In general, Ive been pretty consistent: Im not making an "issue", but expressing a perspective. As an aside, its again interesting to me that because this is on the topic of religion, look how serious the exchanges get...

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

Both Sherry and Gary have tried to downplay it and say in effect "let's move on, because nobody seems to be worried or offended about it," but you won't really let them.

It seemed to me, that when i posted about "arm rests in theaters" that i was done. I did not post again till i heard what i found to be an irresponsible, and fundamentally wrong [BS] statement: a person's religious belief's (be it god or god's or no god) is as discountable as the color of one's bike.

Are you comfortable with that statement LD? Do you put GOD on the same level as the color of your bike? Im sure your aware of the commandment about having craven images...

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

And in the end, your opinion has finally come out -after stating that "some people" might get offended etc. you eventually state that you're talking about you

haven't i been pretty consistent? I tried to be a emphatically clear as possible with each post. when you say "in the end, your opinion has finally come out", I interpret that to mean that i was being cryptic or misleading. I don't think i was. If i was, than i failed to communicate my position. Im going to again review my posts, one by one with a summery:
post #

1. lets keep it motorcycle centric
2. love for Gary (does that make me gay?) and not wanting to see a $hit storm on someone's core beliefs
3. suggesting my opinion on appropriate forums, and confirming that i appluade Gary's efforts, just not where he's expressing the preachy part of it.
4. agreeing with you, acknowledging the potential for a $hit storm, making an argument for conditional tolerance vs unconditional tolerance.
5. responding to gary, defending my previous posts (much like i am now) post by post, making relevant examples for the diversity that needs to be included (which includes God, Gods, or No God), again stating that we should stay warrior focused, and being gay...sorry, expressing love for Gary
6. asking active to clarify his post as i was confused by it
7. resolution and levity with the arm rest comment
8. my opus magnum when i saw the "god can be dismissed like the color of my bike" comment

Having reviewed all my posts, i would have to disagree with you LD...I don't think this particular point holds for you: that i was being cryptic, or needed to "finally have my opinion come out in the end"...that seems a bit inventive for dramatic effect. My point was always there, clear but maybe not concise , but I still stand by them now.

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

when you state that "My point is: God, Gods, No-God and Politics should be off topics on a warrior motorcycle forum."

Now here... here is an opportunity that i would like to come back to...

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

Politics is already off limit, so please don't try to muddy the waters or ruin this great thread with politics. If you don't like the religious aspect of it, then simply walk away. You've done a great job of not being confrontational, and I respect that, but if you keep poking, eventually it will turn ugly, and that will be sad, because there are some great ideas being posted here.

I don't believe im the cause of mud in the waters. These are 2 topics that share the same outcome. I believe, as iv stated, politics and religion are incendiary and polarizing to an extreme. You say, if i keep poking, it will get ugly and sad. I agree...and I know "our collective" ability is as men/women: I agree with you, i also do not have the faith in us to maintain our civility and courtesies on the topics of BOTH god and politics.

With that in mind, is it so horrible that i voice it and make an effort to ask all to be aware of our short comings and try to steer clear of it within the confines of a warrior specific forum?

Is it trouble to show up at a HOG meeting with an import bike? Does a pork farmer attend a Muslim convention? Are the Beef growers of America posting ads in India? Why bring politics and god to a bike show?

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

Some of those ideas (such as mine) DO include God, and that should be ok.

That's just how I see it, I am not speaking for anyone else.

Completely ok, but not when you begin to preach or infer that yours is better than anothers (not that you have).

Also, perhaps this is might clear some of the mud... Im not saying one cant express that they have belief in god (or gods or no god...sheesh it's hard to be PC), But that we have to be EXTRA-doubbly-tripply-dog with a pinky swear, that we are sensative and make an effort to be PC.

I find that this tends to not happen, and then the slippery slope kick's in.

this leads me to:

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

when you state that "My point is: God, Gods, No-God and Politics should be off topics on a warrior motorcycle forum."

Perhaps i should restate: My revised point is: God, God's, No-God and Politics should be kept brief, and non-preachy, if not all together avoided, in order to keep our member pool of warrior lovers as diverse and welcoming as possible, and ensure an interesting, open-minded, safe community of warrior lovers.

Hows that for a 2 cent reply?

[Luv2LafMcc]

Originally Posted by californiacruiser

No, I agree with the moderators on this one, we should be able to have a civil discussion

My point exactly!! We "should" be able to, but more times than not, we cant!

Originally Posted by californiacruiser

I am against censorship in any form; it requires someone in some position of authority to make a judgement call, and that my friends is a slippery slope to put it mildly.

+1 !! I agree. I prefer to SELF CENSOR...its a necessity for any community. Its also called courtesies, manors, respect & politeness.

Originally Posted by californiacruiser

There doesn't seem to be any real animosity here, we all respect each other so let's not invite more rules, or cut off avenues of discussion prematurely. If this thread isn't your "thing" no big deal, just find one that is.

Most of the time, the easily passed topics are not big deal. My point is God (gods, no-god) IS A BIG DEAL BY ITS VERY NATURE! It invites animosity and disrespect. Is that prudent on a forum that is designated as "warrior motorcycle" centric? Or is it best to error on the side of caution and prudence and have all agree to moderate their statements?

[Luv2LafMcc]

by the way, am i getting paid by the post or by the word here?

[bruce59]

As long as being diverse and open minded and welcoming doesn't have to allow references to to a Warrior owner's Christian faith ....?