When is a man, a real man?

[gchalifo]

Good night all!
Love this forum!!!!!

[Doc S]

Originally Posted by Luv2LafMcc

Ive been everyone's whipping boy tonight...and thats ok, because I'm standing up for something i believe in. I'll defend against myopic, small minded people that think there way is the only way... We forget that the USA is here because someone didn't want to be dismissed, and discounted by another's differing opinion and belief...

LD , your a military man, you potentially would have died to defend us, yet your guilty of the very act that the military is here to defend against: Freedom and Equality for all.

How do you justify "equality for all" with some of your "past the line" statements tonight LD?

Luv3Laf, I'm not whipping on you. What do you believe in...
I'm small minded because of my beliefs, though I'm not making you believe?
I'm also a Military man. My youngest Son is about to enter the Military at my encouragement, because I believe in our Country. I also believe in equality. You are free to believe what you want. I don't recall anyone telling you that you couldn't. Furthermore, I haven't seen anyone try to "convert you", or exclude you...
The freedom you call for is already here...
Just because you don't share the same belief system I do, doesn't mean I can't express or share mine...

Nobody's posted hate, or anti-anything...

I've seen others post about Harley's here.
I'm not particularly a Harley guy, but that's ok...

Preparing for others to be offended sounds like a lot of nonsense...

I have a Chevy Silvarado 2500 HD. I've had someone in a prius pull up next to me and give me grief for driving such a gas guzzler...
That person didn't know that I use it for hauling large loads or my camp trailer. I tried to explain this to him, but he couldn't get past the fact that I was using more than my share of petroleum based products and killing our earth...
This has eroded to something like that in my opinion...

Sir, my bike meets my needs and desires. It's not the same as yours, but I respect your bike (though they are different). I'm not going to tell you what you must do to your bike...
It's a Warrior! Do with it as you please, without regard to what I like!

I hope you're not offended.
It's not my intent to offend any of our brothers and sisters here...
I hope I've illustrated my point that because you see mention of beliefs, or a faith system, doesn't mean that anyone is pressing it on you. Believe what you want...

It's what I and others have fought for...
It's what I'm sending my Son into harm's way for...

God Bless,
Doc S

[Luv2LafMcc]

Originally Posted by Doc S

Luv3Laf, I'm not whipping on you. What do you believe in...
I'm small minded because of my beliefs, though I'm not making you believe?
I'm also a Military man. My youngest Son is about to enter the Military at my encouragement, because I believe in our Country. I also believe in equality. You are free to believe what you want. I don't recall anyone telling you that you couldn't. Furthermore, I haven't seen anyone try to "convert you", or exclude you...

Doc, i dont feel whipped on by you, I welcome your perspective and 2 cents.

Doc, how do you feel about the next 2 lines:

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

...if your god isn't the same as my God, then yeah, it's on the level as the color of my bike.

Originally Posted by LeaderDuece

The concept that we must give equal credence to other beliefs has nothing to do with what it takes to be a real man,...

Do you think theres an exclusionary theme about them?

Is there anything in your Latino belief that might be different from an Irish belief, or Jewish, muslim, white,...? If your different than the person saying it, your not a real man? Are you ok with this?

Originally Posted by Doc S

The freedom you call for is already here...
Just because you don't share the same belief system I do, doesn't mean I can't express or share mine...

Agreed, and never in question. I still stand by the sentiment that for this "forum" to work at its best, we need to try to steer clear of the most obvious dangers...i dont say "CANT express", i say make an effort to present it with civility. How is the difference between CANT and CIVIL being missed by so many...

Originally Posted by Doc S

Nobody's posted hate, or anti-anything...

I've seen others post about Harley's here.
I'm not particularly a Harley guy, but that's ok...

Preparing for others to be offended sounds like a lot of nonsense...

Ive used examples of many things to showcase the difference between a difference of opinion on a color of a bike, as opposed to the difference of opinion of someone's core beliefs... I dont know how to better convey what im trying to express...perhaps im simply failing miserably at explaining that me saying "no ice in my water" is very different than saying " your god is $hit" or "your beliefs are $hit cause they are different than mine."

Originally Posted by Doc S

I have a Chevy Silvarado 2500 HD. I've had someone in a prius pull up next to me and give me grief for driving such a gas guzzler...
That person didn't know that I use it for hauling large loads or my camp trailer. I tried to explain this to him, but he couldn't get past the fact that I was using more than my share of petroleum based products and killing our earth...
This has eroded to something like that in my opinion...

Agreed. Thats because to the Eco-purists, its a core belief almost on par with a religion...seeing as how all of us here have 1700 cc bikes, its probably not unsafe to say, that although we may share an awareness and concern and even make efforts towards the "green earth" vision, its not a core belief. Likewise, i wouldn't ride my warrior (or drive my HD truck) to the eco-purists convention... I would self moderate and self censor... I can still support the eco-purist...

Originally Posted by Doc S

Sir, my bike meets my needs and desires. It's not the same as yours, but I respect your bike (though they are different). I'm not going to tell you what you must do to your bike...
It's a Warrior! Do with it as you please, without regard to what I like!

I hope you're not offended.
It's not my intent to offend any of our brothers and sisters here...
I hope I've illustrated my point that because you see mention of beliefs, or a faith system, doesn't mean that anyone is pressing it on you. Believe what you want...

It's what I and others have fought for...
It's what I'm sending my Son into harm's way for...

God Bless,
Doc S

My respect for the military is profound. the gratitude for you, your son, LD's and all others is constant. Im not offended at all by your post, as you've presented yourself with respect and courtesy...I hope i have reciprocated.

My point, for i dont even know what time: Like politics...religion is not a throwaway, easily overlooked topic...and not all can handle it without it getting ugly. So if were here to be warrior lovers, lets make an effort to keep it as warrior based as possible PARTICULARITY when it comes to religion and politics. Im not and have not asked anyone to give up free speech... But reminding all that free speech is not running into a theater and yelling "FIRE FIRE"...

[Luv2LafMcc]

Originally Posted by californiacruiser

The two posts above are both yours, the first in reference to disliking censorship, the second in reference to a comment by LD that it would be a shame to just make it a forum about motorcycles.

I am sorry dude (and I respect you and your thoughts a great deal, you have contributed immensely here on this and many other threads) you simply cannot have it both ways: you either believe in free speech, or you don't.

I can accept that CA. I do believe in free speech. period.
Does free speech mean i "should" be rude, discourteous, and espouse open disdain for everything different than me at every opportunity? Or perhaps there are times within a community when you know when to sound off, and when not to? Is it free speech if i go to an AA meeting, listen to all the stories, and then run out and tell everyone outside the AA meeting the personal stories?

Im not taling about free speech people! Im talking about sensitivity, awareness. Its my RIGHT to bring a beer into an AA meeting at a community center that my taxes pay for...its also my right to get my A$$ kicked for being insensitive to a specific group or forum, while distracting them from what they are there to do ... is this concept really that hard to get or am i doing the WORST job of conveying it?

Originally Posted by californiacruiser

One more time, my thoughts and then I am done commenting: Censorship is never a good thing. Look throughout history, and you will see what I mean. The United States was founded on certain principles that are really important, enough so for some of us to stand, fight, and die for. Free speech is essential to our society, let's do our best to keep it alive here as well.

Thanks for listening, and have a nice night.

Thanks for your comments CA... I tried to address them as best i can.

[Luv2LafMcc]

Originally Posted by 4seeaye

I want to thank all of the forum members who chose not to comment on this thread...from the bottom of my heart. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

4seeaya, i dont know how to interpret this post...? Are you thanking them as protest or as a courtesy?

are you protesting the original "what is a real man" or the religious tones or my comments about moderating your self when it comes to religion, or the comments against my suggestion?

Your avatar pic is of Johnny Cash's San Quentin photo "FU Warden" pic...which often is used as a representation of "FU Establishment"...

I would love for you to clarify.

[Luv2LafMcc]

Originally Posted by btk572

a real man is a man with integrity ! with integrity there is nothing else!!!!!,,, or without integrity there is nothing else!!!!

real men will know if you are a man of integrity there is nothing else, you stand strong to your beliefs,your words , and your commitments thru all and will never deviate from the man of integrity that he is.

a man without integrity it wont matter what he says, signs, or opionates , he has no integrity so all he tries to bs his way thru is worthless!. thats the analogy of a real man in short! btk572

I missed this in the fray BTK...sorry. If i could also ask you: Is this a general comment in response to Gary's original post?

(with all the flames going on towards me, Im trying to address anyone that made an effort to comment and be heard)

[Doc S]

I'm not sure what to say...

I believe you're saying that this is a Yamaha Warrior forum and that if we desire to talk about anything that could be considered controversial, we should take it to a more accepting forum.

Interesting concept based on what I've observed in your posts...

I've seen your participation in other threads that are humerous to some, risque to others. It could also be said these threads might be offensive to others...

Should you and others be careful of the colorful language and content?
Is this scenario different than what you've observed here?

I could voice my opinion that someone might be offended, but what have I or anyone gained, especially if I am not insulted in any way...

I'm not trying to cause problems or chap anyone's hide, but it appears that you may be searching for a problem that doesn't exist...

God Bless,
Doc S

[sangathor]

Originally Posted by gchalifo

Luv2LafMcc?

... My question for you is, are you a moderator? and if not, then you might just consider leaving the moderating up to the moderators...

Can I get a hallelujah on that one? Thanks for trying to help, Luv2lafmcc, but we have it under control. Currently religion is not off limits.

I've been watching this topic since it started and it is now about 10 miles off topic. I don't see any chance of it getting turned around, even after Gary has nicely asked several times. I'm closing it down, not because of the OP, but because it has become grossly off topic and argumentative. Sorry your topic was polluted, Gary.


Goddess Bless