panel bonding agents and adhesives - Road Star Warrior Forum : Yamaha Star Warrior Forums

gchalifo · 11-30-2012, 09:22 AM

Hello Warrior world!

Looking for some feedback from anyone who has used 2 part epoxy/adhesives.

Specifically, not so much a squeeze tube of the products, but the plunger type that require the guns where the 2 parts are placed in the gun, and a mixing tube is used at the dispensing end.

My question is, are there universal guns out there?
I see that 3M's 2part epoxy products are in these cartridges that appear to be specific to their own dispensing gun ??

Anyone have experience with these guns I'd appreciate you insight.

**** UPDATE******

So for those curious, I will be using a bonding agent/adhesive as apposed to welding my stretched tank. Gonna give this option a fair shot. The information I have been reading is very positive in terms of the strength of some of these products. Given the tank stretch is basically a non weight bearing, non-pressurized, just for looks mod, I am thinking the only real concern in the constant <<<<<<<<vibrating>>>>>> of our beasts.....

The 3m panel adhesives actually put their products through a car rear end crash test,.,,,,,and they claim their panels DID NO SEPERATE on a 19 mph impact to the rear qtr panels secured with their bonding adhesive 08115 product.

However it comes with a cost.....$50. average for a applicator gun, $2.00 for a couple of mixing tubes, and the product itself sells for $20.00 on ebay.

All that said, I need to consider some loctite products like their epoxy weld.

Anyone have any experience with these types of bonding adhesives, please chime in....

thanks

capttwb · 11-30-2012, 10:41 AM

G, I've used all sorts of 2 part epoxy's on boats, one of the best holding epoxy's I've found is a product called Marine-Tex. The stuff once dried is just like steel. Since it is made for marine applications, even below the water line, I'm sure it would be up to the task. It is not really that expensive either, depends on the size you need. You might want to check it out. You can sand it fairly easy before it cures all the way. You can get it at any marine store. If you have a West Marine up there, they carry it.

Hydro · 11-30-2012, 05:48 PM

G
I just sent you a PM. Let me know if I can help.

btk572 · 11-30-2012, 11:09 PM

hello g, the panel bond products are very specific to the materials being bonded so make sure you get the correct system for your material being bonded. the new cars have alot of panels the are just glued on , like roof skins, door panels, quarter panels, and on and on.
the advantage of panel bond is it bonds a far larger area when done correctly then if you were to weld the 2 panels together. it is water tight and actually seals the area around the bond and doesnt fatigue the area like a weld, it has no chance of a burn thru like a weld, and wont crack like a weld that is over worked .

i have seen demos of the product pulled with a frame machine and it tore the metal before the bond gave up. overlap is the key and a rough ground surface of 36- 80 grit scratches will add a mechanical bond along with the chemical bond. bare steel is the best surface to start with.

aside of that it should be real straight forward work, you dont have to buy the gun or tips just push equal amounts out and mix like bondo and apply with a spreader will work just fine, just dont over clamp your work it needs the material between the panels.

good luck, lets see them progress pictures. lol btk572

gchalifo · 12-02-2012, 10:02 PM

thanks for the feedback and input BTK and HYDRO...

Hydro, we need to talk...

christok · 12-03-2012, 08:56 AM

I have used "Autopro" semi flexible structural adhesive and sandable filler (from NAPA) in the past to bond plexiglass to sheet metal with very good results. They had several types of adhesive for different applications. At the time you could buy it in the tubes for a gun application or you could buy it in the toothpaste type tubes to mix like the old style epoxies.. i researched a bit last night to see more about the panel adhesives and found two things - 1) you have to be sure that the expiriy date is not passed on the product and make sure that the panels being joined are cleaned as specified or the bond will not be strong
2) there were some complaints that the product would show through the paint (seam)on hot days as the metal and the adhesive did not expand at the same rate in the heat.

As long as when you bond the new section on to the tank and are able to leave a bit of a depression on the new section that can be filled with body filler and feathered into the tank there should be no signs of the bonding agent showing through the paint as it will be below the surface of the section you are joining on. after the bonding process i would remove any of the bonding agent that squeezes out between the two panels (at the end where they join) with a small grinder and then would do my boduy work and then you will not have any problems with respect to the body filler not sticking to the bonding agent or the seam showing through on hot days.

anxious to see the results

gchalifo · 12-03-2012, 09:31 AM

I'll look into that Christo!,
Also waiting to hear back from Hydro who also says he has a solution for me.
g

Quote:

Originally Posted by christok

I have used "Autopro" semi flexible structural adhesive and sandable filler (from NAPA) in the past to bond plexiglass to sheet metal with very good results. They had several types of adhesive for different applications. At the time you could buy it in the tubes for a gun application or you could buy it in the toothpaste type tubes to mix like the old style epoxies.. i researched a bit last night to see more about the panel adhesives and found two things - 1) you have to be sure that the expiriy date is not passed on the product and make sure that the panels being joined are cleaned as specified or the bond will not be strong
2) there were some complaints that the product would show through the paint (seam)on hot days as the metal and the adhesive did not expand at the same rate in the heat.

As long as when you bond the new section on to the tank and are able to leave a bit of a depression on the new section that can be filled with body filler and feathered into the tank there should be no signs of the bonding agent showing through the paint as it will be below the surface of the section you are joining on. after the bonding process i would remove any of the bonding agent that squeezes out between the two panels (at the end where they join) with a small grinder and then would do my boduy work and then you will not have any problems with respect to the body filler not sticking to the bonding agent or the seam showing through on hot days.

anxious to see the results

Hydro · 12-03-2012, 09:41 AM

Hey G
I just responded to your last pm. Did the JB hold?

gchalifo · 12-03-2012, 10:08 AM

Morning Terry!
I have a 2 part answer....

On the flat surfaces, NO....
On the underneath channel where the round bar is tucked into that tight channel along the edge of the tank end, YES....

so, I'll look for your pm and go from there Terry!
g

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hydro

Hey G
I just responded to your last pm. Did the JB hold?

thundermutt · 12-03-2012, 10:14 AM

There is a line of products called Plexus....we use here in the shop for bonding aluminum....also... a company called Lord Fuser....they make panel bonding adhesives for the automotive industry....have used both products extensively...never had a failure...down side is....non of the good ones are cheap. Worst case....find a good bodyshop...go talk to one of the body techs...slide him a few bucks to glue it up next time he is puttin on a quarter or roof panel...

11-30-2012, 09:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
gchalifo Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: oxford, mass Posts: 4,626	panel bonding agents and adhesives Hello Warrior world! Looking for some feedback from anyone who has used 2 part epoxy/adhesives. Specifically, not so much a squeeze tube of the products, but the plunger type that require the guns where the 2 parts are placed in the gun, and a mixing tube is used at the dispensing end. My question is, are there universal guns out there? I see that 3M's 2part epoxy products are in these cartridges that appear to be specific to their own dispensing gun ?? Anyone have experience with these guns I'd appreciate you insight. ** UPDATE**** So for those curious, I will be using a bonding agent/adhesive as apposed to welding my stretched tank. Gonna give this option a fair shot. The information I have been reading is very positive in terms of the strength of some of these products. Given the tank stretch is basically a non weight bearing, non-pressurized, just for looks mod, I am thinking the only real concern in the constant <<<<<<<<vibrating>>>>>> of our beasts..... The 3m panel adhesives actually put their products through a car rear end crash test,.,,,,,and they claim their panels DID NO SEPERATE on a 19 mph impact to the rear qtr panels secured with their bonding adhesive 08115 product. However it comes with a cost.....$50. average for a applicator gun, $2.00 for a couple of mixing tubes, and the product itself sells for $20.00 on ebay. All that said, I need to consider some loctite products like their epoxy weld. Anyone have any experience with these types of bonding adhesives, please chime in.... thanks Last edited by gchalifo; 11-30-2012 at 09:47 AM.

11-30-2012, 10:41 AM	#2 (permalink)
capttwb Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 925	G, I've used all sorts of 2 part epoxy's on boats, one of the best holding epoxy's I've found is a product called Marine-Tex. The stuff once dried is just like steel. Since it is made for marine applications, even below the water line, I'm sure it would be up to the task. It is not really that expensive either, depends on the size you need. You might want to check it out. You can sand it fairly easy before it cures all the way. You can get it at any marine store. If you have a West Marine up there, they carry it. __________________ "Beer is proof God loves us and want us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin "Twas a woman who drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her!" W.C. Fields

11-30-2012, 05:48 PM	#3 (permalink)
Hydro Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NC Posts: 233	G I just sent you a PM. Let me know if I can help. __________________ Whether you think you can...or you think you can't. You're right.

11-30-2012, 11:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
btk572 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Fort Wayne In Posts: 2,942	hello g, the panel bond products are very specific to the materials being bonded so make sure you get the correct system for your material being bonded. the new cars have alot of panels the are just glued on , like roof skins, door panels, quarter panels, and on and on. the advantage of panel bond is it bonds a far larger area when done correctly then if you were to weld the 2 panels together. it is water tight and actually seals the area around the bond and doesnt fatigue the area like a weld, it has no chance of a burn thru like a weld, and wont crack like a weld that is over worked . i have seen demos of the product pulled with a frame machine and it tore the metal before the bond gave up. overlap is the key and a rough ground surface of 36- 80 grit scratches will add a mechanical bond along with the chemical bond. bare steel is the best surface to start with. aside of that it should be real straight forward work, you dont have to buy the gun or tips just push equal amounts out and mix like bondo and apply with a spreader will work just fine, just dont over clamp your work it needs the material between the panels. good luck, lets see them progress pictures. lol btk572 Last edited by btk572; 11-30-2012 at 11:12 PM.

12-03-2012, 08:56 AM	#6 (permalink)
christok Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 2,069	I have used "Autopro" semi flexible structural adhesive and sandable filler (from NAPA) in the past to bond plexiglass to sheet metal with very good results. They had several types of adhesive for different applications. At the time you could buy it in the tubes for a gun application or you could buy it in the toothpaste type tubes to mix like the old style epoxies.. i researched a bit last night to see more about the panel adhesives and found two things - 1) you have to be sure that the expiriy date is not passed on the product and make sure that the panels being joined are cleaned as specified or the bond will not be strong 2) there were some complaints that the product would show through the paint (seam)on hot days as the metal and the adhesive did not expand at the same rate in the heat. As long as when you bond the new section on to the tank and are able to leave a bit of a depression on the new section that can be filled with body filler and feathered into the tank there should be no signs of the bonding agent showing through the paint as it will be below the surface of the section you are joining on. after the bonding process i would remove any of the bonding agent that squeezes out between the two panels (at the end where they join) with a small grinder and then would do my boduy work and then you will not have any problems with respect to the body filler not sticking to the bonding agent or the seam showing through on hot days. anxious to see the results __________________ Christo K Mold your dreams into reality Last edited by christok; 12-03-2012 at 08:57 AM. Reason: missing text

12-02-2012, 10:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
gchalifo Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: oxford, mass Posts: 4,626	thanks for the feedback and input BTK and HYDRO... Hydro, we need to talk...

12-03-2012, 09:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
Hydro Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NC Posts: 233	Hey G I just responded to your last pm. Did the JB hold? __________________ Whether you think you can...or you think you can't. You're right.

12-03-2012, 10:14 AM	#10 (permalink)
thundermutt Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Norcross Ga Posts: 28	There is a line of products called Plexus....we use here in the shop for bonding aluminum....also... a company called Lord Fuser....they make panel bonding adhesives for the automotive industry....have used both products extensively...never had a failure...down side is....non of the good ones are cheap. Worst case....find a good bodyshop...go talk to one of the body techs...slide him a few bucks to glue it up next time he is puttin on a quarter or roof panel...

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