Is front pulley issue a factor on 06 model? (Threads Merged) - Page 3 - Road Star Warrior Forum : Yamaha Star Warrior Forums

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Old 09-11-2019, 01:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Counter clockwise thread on middleshaft would stop pulley locknut loosening

Counter clockwise thread on middleshaft would stop pulley locknut loosening. Would it not?

See info on counter clockwise threads...look under "Automotive"
https://www.liveabout.com/what-is-a-...ed-bolt-281548
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:06 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yes. In the middle drive gear case, through the fill window you can see the same nut. It very hard to loose it because it clockwise thread. In my history I've used the same 135Nm of torque for both nuts(and same blue loctite). On pulley nut come loose but in the middle drive gear was stable. But....Now I check both. Difference that I checking it in middle drive at the same time with replace the oil. Pulley's nut I checking much often)))
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arizonawarrior View Post
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You posted 135nm and that is inadequate torque. 110 foot pounds is about 150nm. I see Rij1 already provided this info. The threads need to be cleaned and inspected for reduction due to wear or over-torque damage (180nm is worrisome). The factory used red loctite and specified same. However many do not use it after pulley removal and have no troubles. Blue loctite is useless in this application.

It almost appears there are a group of riders who are sharing incorrect spec and service information. That can be frustrating. It can also be corrected.
We have a very common service manual version LIT-11616-16-36 / 5PX-28197-11. It indicates the tightening torque of 100Nm! A common mistake also lies in the fact that people use the same parameters for motorcycles of different years of production.
However, it should be clarified that all these tightening torques and errors of the service manual are critical when disassembling and assembling it back. But in my case, the nut began to loose in the factory assembly. I just have this nut (spare) in my repair kit.

And as practice shows, even 180Nm may not be enough. I do not understand why the designers of the Yamaha did not make the same locking mechanism by installing the stud through the shaft body, as is done for example on BMW motorcycles on the rear axle
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ThingFish View Post
WOW!!! There must be some enormous forces at play to cause the nut to loosen and break free from the hold excerted by the indents. What is causing that force? It cannot just be vibration. It is a very strong force that is causing this. Some kind of rotational force excerted on the nut. Is it perhaps the spacer behind the nut which of itself is not fixed to anything and is transferring the rotational friction force of the spinning pulley to the nut?
I think this is a complex problem. But initially, the nut holding the drive pulley is twisted on the shaft, which rotates counterclockwise, that is, it seeks to loosen the nut.

This problem is very, very common with us. I think this is affected by the erroneous data of the manual, the use of inappropriate moments for different versions of the motorcycle, the refusal to use a chemical thread lock, that new nuts seems thinner in the place of the locking collar (not exactly, I will try to find the nut of the previous version and compare with the new one). And also the fact that many people press the fixing part of the nut in very different ways.

But a few photos in my posts about the unscrewed nuts that were installed in the manufacturer’s way. This is the worst case scenario. Imagine how it feels for an ordinary consumer, who does not even suspect such meanness from this place, who did not climb there, did not change anything, and ride in the factory configuration.
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Old 09-11-2019, 03:33 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
Holy cow, i would not even consider welding on my middle drive shaft. I'm not having the pulley problem on my 06 motor as of yet, but will be keeping an eye on it. Y'all just must be to dang tough on the old girls.
All of us who faced this problem, we all solved it differently. With varying degrees of luck. Someone in the city, near the service center, had a nut loosen, he lost it and stopped)))) Someone, like me, often monitors this nut, has a replacement outside the city. Someone periodically knocks the locking part. And someone did not attach importance to the advice to check this nut(often on my part) and the nut was loosen on the road outside the city. Like in case with welding. The man was very angry. Attempts to tighten the nut inevitably led to its weakening. Just a little bit more and she would be ripped off again. Because of this he probably freaked out and welded it. I told him not to do this, he will not be able to disasseble the middle gear, but the user of this motorcycle was very angry)))
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeezzzz View Post
We have a very common service manual version LIT-11616-16-36 / 5PX-28197-11. It indicates the tightening torque of 100Nm! A common mistake also lies in the fact that people use the same parameters for motorcycles of different years of production.
However, it should be clarified that all these tightening torques and errors of the service manual are critical when disassembling and assembling it back. But in my case, the nut began to loose in the factory assembly. I just have this nut (spare) in my repair kit.

And as practice shows, even 180Nm may not be enough. I do not understand why the designers of the Yamaha did not make the same locking mechanism by installing the stud through the shaft body, as is done for example on BMW motorcycles on the rear axle
The service manual drive pulley nut and rear axle nut torque specs have been revised with notice for not only the warrior for all years but also the Road star 1700 models.
It's known here and the Road star groups of this mistake among a few others. As I mentioned the torque spec is 110 ft lbs(148-150 Nm)
06 through 10 have the same middle drive gear, washer and castle nut.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:10 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeezzzz View Post
Yes. In the middle drive gear case, through the fill window you can see the same nut. It very hard to loose it because it clockwise thread. In my history I've used the same 135Nm of torque for both nuts(and same blue loctite). On pulley nut come loose but in the middle drive gear was stable. But....Now I check both. Difference that I checking it in middle drive at the same time with replace the oil. Pulley's nut I checking much often)))
Yes I will be checking my pulley nut every 2,000 km or so from now on. But what I meant is that if Yamaha made the thread on the end of the middle driveshaft counter clockwise in other words reverse thread then the pulley lock nut would not work itself loose at all but would actually be trying to tighten itself.

There havent been any reports about that other nut you can see through the oil fill hole loosening up have there?
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:08 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Exclamation Middle Shaft '101'

A CCW thread wont make a bit of difference as the nut isn't coming loose! It's a loss of material between matting parts.

The root cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory.

The result of a loose pulley is 'Fretting' (red residue with ferrous parts-An erosion of parent metal between the splines of the pulley and middle shaft) between the outer bearing, hardened spacer, pulley, washer and nut.

It's down hill from there. If not severe an epoxy thread filler can be used as a band aid repair to maintain the close clearance fit needed between the splines. The pulley will need to be tightened in the proper direction to eliminate the clearance between the splines. I believe Ken aka Bladerunr did a write-up on his repair.

The simple solution to correcting this syndrome is nothing more than replacing the worn parts and increasing the torque value as stated in my OP back in Dec 2004. Nada mas. No thread lock required nor specified by the factory. At that time I reported using 125 lb~ft for my ride.
In later discussions I've suggested 110-125 lb~ft

The Roadliner, Stratoliner & Raider all have a larger middle shaft spline and call out 100 lb~ft of torque.

The transfer case middle drive gear that uses a silent endless chain isn't an issue because it's not subjected to the same torque and overhung load that is transmitted to the final drive.

I used 90 lb~ft for that assembly back in '04' where the YFSM called out 72
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Last edited by alanh; 09-11-2019 at 06:09 PM. Reason: corrected spelling root
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alanh View Post
A CCW thread wont make a bit of difference as the nut isn't coming loose! It's a loss of material between matting parts.

The rooot cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory.

The result of a loose pulley is 'Fretting' (red residue with ferrous parts-An erosion of parent metal between the splines of the pulley and middle shaft) between the outer bearing, hardened spacer, pulley, washer and nut.

It's down hill from there. If not severe an epoxy thread filler can be used as a band aid repair to maintain the close clearance fit needed between the splines. The pulley will need to be tightened in the proper direction to eliminate the clearance between the splines. I believe Ken aka Bladerunr did a write-up on his repair.

The simple solution to correcting this syndrome is nothing more than replacing the worn parts and increasing the torque value as stated in my OP back in Dec 2004. Nada mas. No thread lock required nor specified by the factory. At that time I reported using 125 lb~ft for my ride.
In later discussions I've suggested 110-125 lb~ft

The Roadliner, Stratoliner & Raider all have a larger middle shaft spline and call out 100 lb~ft of torque.

The transfer case middle drive gear that uses a silent endless chain isn't an issue because it's not subjected to the same torque and overhung load that is transmitted to the final drive.

I used 90 lb~ft for that assembly back in '04' where the YFSM called out 72
Hi Allan...you write The rooot cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory. Surely Yamaha is not still using inadequate torque on the pulley nut? When did Yamaha realize they were not torquing enough? Once it became known that the torque was inadequate did Yamaha increase the torque on the nut during manufacturing/assembly and if so from which year was that? Even later models 2006 and up were reporting loose pulley and more recent Yamaha models such as the Raider and Stratoline are still reporting loose pulleys and nuts as well.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:57 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ThingFish View Post
Hi Allan...you write The rooot cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory. Surely Yamaha is not still using inadequate torque on the pulley nut? When did Yamaha realize they were not torquing enough? Once it became known that the torque was inadequate did Yamaha increase the torque on the nut during manufacturing/assembly and if so from which year was that? Even later models 2006 and up were reporting loose pulley and more recent Yamaha models such as the Raider and Stratoline are still reporting loose pulleys and nuts as well.
I haven't heard issues with the 1900's pulley nuts giving issues as I have one 07". Unless they were tampered with as u mentioned you never know what was done before with previous owners.
The torque was revised I think in 09 Or a year later after production stopped.
As I mentioned in your other post.
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