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Is front pulley issue a factor on 06 model? (Threads Merged)

5K views 41 replies 12 participants last post by  freeezzzz 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi guys, new here (see my intro on welcoming mat) and my first question....of course about the often discussed front pulley issue. I have a 2006 Midnite Warrior with 20,000 kilometers on the dial. I have gathered from posts here that the issue was a big one with pre 2006 models. I cannot find much info about this issue on 2006 and up models. I did find out here that the 2006 models and up received a new middle shaft and new type of locking nut. I would like to know if the issue was fixed by these changes in the 2006 models and up or are there still issues regarding the pulley getting loose? Your help and info/feedback would be very much appreciated. Thanks :)

Ps. Are there any other common issues and problems that I should be aware of?
 
#4 ·
I second that! I was not including that in my PM and it wound up taking my bike off the road for a couple weeks while I replaced the middle shaft and front pulley. Based on recommendations here on the forum, I also increased the recommended torque on the pulley nut too. It takes 5min to check and saves a ton of time, money and hassle down the road.
 
#10 ·
I have two of 06 bikes. Had this problem on both. Tryed 100Nm with blue loctite and old nut - almost loosed.



Then tryed red loctite and 135Nm - loosed, but less.



On second bike from factory:



Then I used 180Nm and red loctite....



After 6000km it almost LOOSED but very slow...



Planing check again tomorrow)))

And.... I think that new nuts has thinner area to fix :(
 
#13 ·
I have two of 06 bikes. Had this problem on both. Tryed 100Nm with blue loctite and old nut - almost loosed.



Then tryed red loctite and 135Nm - loosed, but less.
06" up use the same castle nuts.



On second bike from factory:



Then I used 180Nm and red loctite....



After 6000km it almost LOOSED but very slow...



Planing check again tomorrow)))

And.... I think that new nuts has thinner area to fix :(
180 Nm wow. That's way beyond the 149 Nm mark.
Your 100 And 130 Nm were way below also.
It looks like you may have some other issue there.
Loctite should not be needed as Many have not had issues even some with hundreds of thousands of miles.

As long as the nut is torqued correctly and the nut is staked at cut outs on the drive axle and hasn't jumped back out of the slots you won't have issues or a loose pulley. It's not possible unless threads on the nut are stripping out and pushing the nut off. But if that was the case then the nut is bad not the torque.




Everyone else-
One thing that should be considered is that the torque value on these were to low from the factory and second is the you never know if it was tampered with before you had the bike.
But once you set the torque and set the nut to lock in both slots you won't have issues. Loctite is not needed.

110 ft lbs is the torque spec. 149-150 Nm
 
#15 ·
Freeezzzz,
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In my opinion, dynamics is important. Today you check the nut and everything seems ok. And if you compare the previous result with what it was 1000km ago, the dynamics will be clear and what to expect in the future.

 
#16 · (Edited)
Freeezzzz
You posted 135nm and that is inadequate torque. 110 foot pounds is about 150nm. I see Rij1 already provided this info. The threads need to be cleaned and inspected for reduction due to wear or over-torque damage (180nm is worrisome). The factory used red loctite and specified same. However many do not use it after pulley removal and have no troubles. Blue loctite is useless in this application.

It almost appears there are a group of riders who are sharing incorrect spec and service information. That can be frustrating. It can also be corrected.
 
#23 ·
We have a very common service manual version LIT-11616-16-36 / 5PX-28197-11. It indicates the tightening torque of 100Nm! A common mistake also lies in the fact that people use the same parameters for motorcycles of different years of production.
However, it should be clarified that all these tightening torques and errors of the service manual are critical when disassembling and assembling it back. But in my case, the nut began to loose in the factory assembly. I just have this nut (spare) in my repair kit.

And as practice shows, even 180Nm may not be enough. I do not understand why the designers of the Yamaha did not make the same locking mechanism by installing the stud through the shaft body, as is done for example on BMW motorcycles on the rear axle :rolleyes:
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thoughts of a madman grasping at straws?

Been thinking about the pulley locknut a lot still and why it loosens. It even loosens itself from the hold exerted by the collar indented into the grooves on the shaft. That means there must be a very powerful force at play here. A rotational force created by the spinning middleshaft and the pulley. This force is transmitted to the thick spacer between the pulley and the nut. The spacer is not affixed to anything and transfers this rotational force to the locknut which in turn breaks free from it's indent bonds and red locktite and slowly turns loose.

Does this make sense at all? or are these the thoughts of a madman grasping at straws?

Interesting link on locknuts and other type of fasteners "Bolt Science"
Self-Loosening of Bolts and Nuts
 
#19 ·
Holy cow, i would not even consider welding on my middle drive shaft. I'm not having the pulley problem on my 06 motor as of yet, but will be keeping an eye on it. Y'all just must be to dang tough on the old girls.:D
 
#25 ·
:D:D:D All of us who faced this problem, we all solved it differently. With varying degrees of luck. Someone in the city, near the service center, had a nut loosen, he lost it and stopped)))) Someone, like me, often monitors this nut, has a replacement outside the city. Someone periodically knocks the locking part. And someone did not attach importance to the advice to check this nut(often on my part) and the nut was loosen on the road outside the city. Like in case with welding. The man was very angry. Attempts to tighten the nut inevitably led to its weakening. Just a little bit more and she would be ripped off again. Because of this he probably freaked out and welded it. I told him not to do this, he will not be able to disasseble the middle gear, but the user of this motorcycle was very angry)))
 
#21 · (Edited)
#22 ·
Yes. In the middle drive gear case, through the fill window you can see the same nut. It very hard to loose it because it clockwise thread. In my history I've used the same 135Nm of torque for both nuts(and same blue loctite). On pulley nut come loose but in the middle drive gear was stable. But....Now I check both. Difference that I checking it in middle drive at the same time with replace the oil. Pulley's nut I checking much often)))
 
#27 · (Edited)
Yes I will be checking my pulley nut every 2,000 km or so from now on. But what I meant is that if Yamaha made the thread on the end of the middle driveshaft counter clockwise in other words reverse thread then the pulley lock nut would not work itself loose at all but would actually be trying to tighten itself.

There havent been any reports about that other nut you can see through the oil fill hole loosening up have there?
 
#28 · (Edited)
Middle Shaft '101'

A CCW thread wont make a bit of difference as the nut isn't coming loose! It's a loss of material between matting parts.

The root cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory.

The result of a loose pulley is 'Fretting' (red residue with ferrous parts-An erosion of parent metal between the splines of the pulley and middle shaft) between the outer bearing, hardened spacer, pulley, washer and nut.

It's down hill from there. If not severe an epoxy thread filler can be used as a band aid repair to maintain the close clearance fit needed between the splines. The pulley will need to be tightened in the proper direction to eliminate the clearance between the splines. I believe Ken aka Bladerunr did a write-up on his repair.

The simple solution to correcting this syndrome is nothing more than replacing the worn parts and increasing the torque value as stated in my OP back in Dec 2004. Nada mas. No thread lock required nor specified by the factory. At that time I reported using 125 lb~ft for my ride.
In later discussions I've suggested 110-125 lb~ft

The Roadliner, Stratoliner & Raider all have a larger middle shaft spline and call out 100 lb~ft of torque.

The transfer case middle drive gear that uses a silent endless chain isn't an issue because it's not subjected to the same torque and overhung load that is transmitted to the final drive.

I used 90 lb~ft for that assembly back in '04' where the YFSM called out 72 :)
 
#29 ·
A CCW thread wont make a bit of difference as the nut isn't coming loose! It's a loss of material between matting parts.

The rooot cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory.

The result of a loose pulley is 'Fretting' (red residue with ferrous parts-An erosion of parent metal between the splines of the pulley and middle shaft) between the outer bearing, hardened spacer, pulley, washer and nut.

It's down hill from there. If not severe an epoxy thread filler can be used as a band aid repair to maintain the close clearance fit needed between the splines. The pulley will need to be tightened in the proper direction to eliminate the clearance between the splines. I believe Ken aka Bladerunr did a write-up on his repair.

The simple solution to correcting this syndrome is nothing more than replacing the worn parts and increasing the torque value as stated in my OP back in Dec 2004. Nada mas. No thread lock required nor specified by the factory. At that time I reported using 125 lb~ft for my ride.
In later discussions I've suggested 110-125 lb~ft

The Roadliner, Stratoliner & Raider all have a larger middle shaft spline and call out 100 lb~ft of torque.

The transfer case middle drive gear that uses a silent endless chain isn't an issue because it's not subjected to the same torque and overhung load that is transmitted to the final drive.

I used 90 lb~ft for that assembly back in '04' where the YFSM called out 72 :)
Hi Allan...you write The rooot cause of the loose pulley is/was inadequate torque of the pulley nut out of the gate from the Yami factory. Surely Yamaha is not still using inadequate torque on the pulley nut? When did Yamaha realize they were not torquing enough? Once it became known that the torque was inadequate did Yamaha increase the torque on the nut during manufacturing/assembly and if so from which year was that? Even later models 2006 and up were reporting loose pulley and more recent Yamaha models such as the Raider and Stratoline are still reporting loose pulleys and nuts as well.
 
#31 · (Edited)
ThingFish .... I suggest you revisit your OP 'My two cents worth on pulley issue' as I've made several contributions that state the Yamaha torque values for both early and late bikes.
2009 was the last model year for the Warrior in USA and I think 2010 Yamaha offered the Warrior in Canada with gold forks or wheels ? as I recall.

The last YFSM (Yamaha Factory Service Manual) Supplement was issued in 2006 for your model year with Radial forks and new middle shaft design etcetera.
If you read my contributions in your earlier OP you'll see I state that value @ 85 lb~ft.

Yamaha has never acknowledged the front pulley syndrome :mad: :(

I clearly state in this thread that Yamaha has beefed up the Roadliner, Stratoliner & Raider with a larger middle shaft spline and call out 100 lb~ft of torque in the YFSM for those models.

If you want peace of mind I suggest you purchase a 1/2" drive torque wrench and I believe a M30 6-point socket and retorque the pulley nut to 110 lb~ft. You'll want to replace the collared spindle nut and can reuse the hardened disc washer. No thread lock required. Dimple the nut in 2-places and sleep tight.
 
#34 ·
RE: If you want peace of mind I suggest you purchase a 1/2" drive torque wrench and I believe a M30 6-point socket and retorque the pulley nut to 110 lb~ft. You'll want to replace the collared spindle nut and can reuse the hardened disc washer. No thread lock required. Dimple the nut in 2-places and sleep tight.

Hi Allan...I think that's exactly what I'm gonna do...I already ordered a new locknut and new hardened washer/spacer. But at the moment the pulley is tight and so is the nut and the dimples haven't moved so I will leave it well alone but will frequently monitor it. Should I detect any movement at all I will do as you suggested. Not going to let this keep me from sleeping well :)
 
#32 · (Edited)
In Russia, almost all motorcycles are bought second-hand and in the secondary market. After-sales service of such bikes is in no way associated with the manufacturer or official representative. Therefore, many users and mechanics have not even heard of changes in the user manual. In some ways this is not critical or even not noticed at all, especially against the background of tuning. But in some ways this leads to more costly consequences. And everyone in a stressful situation decides in his own way.

Later I will attach the image of another motorcycle - XVS950, where the breakdown and unscrewing of the nut with the loosening and beating of the pulley on the shaft led to the dismantling of the entire engine. In addition, my friends who own the XV1900 (Stratoliner and Rider) say that they have a problem with this nut too.

As I told. On the XVS950. Nut nobody touched from factory. And it was loose and lost. Then....
 
#36 ·
https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13...05848-front-pulley-issue-factor-06-model.html

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13-technical-discussion/305864-my-two-cents-worth-pulley-issue.html

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13...05892-what-size-torque-wrench-pulley-nut.html

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13-technical-discussion/305908-thoughts-madman-grasping-straws.html

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13...haft-would-stop-pulley-locknut-loosening.html

Dude... breathe. Your bike is not going to blow up. This subject seems to be taking over your thoughts. Not trying to be a Richard when I say this... This is becoming an obsession in your mind. You gotta move past the pulley. Buy a new nut and washer if you must, throw some loctite on it, and torque that SOB down... then just forget about it for a year and ENJOY THE RIDE!
 
#37 ·
Dude if you read my last reply in this thread (which you obviously didn't or missed) then you would not have posted what you did. Please do read it. Have a great day and safe riding.
 
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