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'04' Warrior - Super Fine Metallic Black
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^^^ (n)
Couple of basic questions
  1. Does the Head Light remain ON after the engine cuts-out?
  2. Have you tried Key-OFF & Key-ON after the engine cuts-out?
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
^^^ (n)
Couple of basic questions
  1. Does the Head Light remain ON after the engine cuts-out?
  2. Have you tried Key-OFF & Key-ON after the engine cuts-out?
^^^ (n)
Couple of basic questions
  1. Does the Head Light remain ON after the engine cuts-out?
  2. Have you tried Key-OFF & Key-ON after the engine cuts-out?
I am going to take it out tomorrow. I will double check when it does it again but I'm pretty sure it stays on.

I have tried the key.

I unhooked the horns to see if it still works.
 

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'04' Warrior - Super Fine Metallic Black
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In the video, it does look like the headlight was still on after it died.
I am going to take it out tomorrow. I will double check when it does it again but I'm pretty sure it stays on.

I have tried the key.

I unhooked the horns to see if it still works.
OK ... I just re-watched your YouTube video and was able to observe the High/Low Beam operation when you manipulated the rocker switch. This indicates to me that the +12vdc power N.O. contact on the ignition switch is not the issue.
  • What happens when you Key-OFF & Key-ON after the engine cuts-off? Do you hear the F.I. pump pressurize the fuel manifold, the speedo & Tach POST and Does the starter PB work?
  • When the engine cuts-off is it instantaneous as if you used the Engine Cut-Off Switch?
You'll want to keep in mind that the Horn Circuit switches the Low Side of the 12vdc! That means it's switching the negative polarity which is a clue... perhaps. My knee jerk reaction is that the ground loop interlock circuit is being interrupted but I've been wrong before.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
OK ... I just re-watched your YouTube video and was able to observe the High/Low Beam operation when you manipulated the rocker switch. This indicates to me that the +12vdc power N.O. contact on the ignition switch is not the issue.
  • What happens when you Key-OFF & Key-ON after the engine cuts-off? Do you hear the F.I. pump pressurize the fuel manifold, the speedo & Tach POST and Does the starter PB work?
  • When the engine cuts-off is it instantaneous as if you used the Engine Cut-Off Switch?
You'll want to keep in mind that the Horn Circuit switches the Low Side of the 12vdc! That means it's switching the negative polarity which is a clue... perhaps. My knee jerk reaction is that the ground loop interlock circuit is being interrupted but I've been wrong before.
Exactly. The engine just cuts off. As if I hit the switch. When I turn the key off and on. Nothing changes. Nothing I do works until I hit the horn. That's why I was thinking possible the voltage regulator. Maybe I disrupt something and unconfuse her.
 

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Okay so here's how I'm thinking about this.

Something is self-losing contact that is necessary for the ignition circuit to remain correctly energized.

I don't believe it is speed-sensitive so for now I'm ignoring that and will revisit if necessary. This seems helpful because the Lean Angle Sensor is not speed-sensitive (although if damaged it can act on vibration but you said this is not the case). Separately, the redline (rpm cap) system reduces motor rpm when triggered but it does not shut off the motor. And neither of these interface electrically with the horn.

In the video the motor has already stalled, and the gauge lights are on, so the power circuit thru the keyswitch is not interrupted and the start logic circuit seems to be working. I cannot see if the headlight itself remains illuminated at the time the motor shuts-down on its own.

The bike's wiring is not stock. So . . .

Near the battery in the NEG cable you will see couplings (one is black both halves and also a black/red) clean and inspect those coupling contacts and inspect for looseness that might cause momentary loss of contact. Also please take a picture of the battery NEG cable connection near the oil filler cap. I want to see what other wires connect there too. The most common reason for this bike to self-shut-down is bad battery NEG at frame, or battery POS or NEG post connection(s) are loose. However, most times the ignition circuit will shut down and then power-up again as evidenced by the tach sweep and etc. at which time the motor can be restarted. I have seen cases where stuff under the rider seat it getting crushed by rider weight, and weird things happen. Or too much crud inside the headlight bucket. But no horn needed.

Separately, do you have both horns (front right and side left) and do they both work? It's hard for me to distinguish in the video.

If it makes you happy, disconnect battery then unplug clean inspect reconnect the Rectifier-Regulator. Heck, at this point why not. I don't suspect it's inherently bad because you are not saying that you are killing your battery, and in the video the horn has power behind it and the starter works quickly to start the bike, so the motor is not stalling due to inadequate power.

With standard wiring, none of these conditions will require energizing the horn as a condition of starting the motor. So that points to the second half of the equation being inside your handlebars (or at exit point).

All of this assumes you are correct about the LAS but even then honking the horn does not usually correct it, so if the LAS is bad and shutting down the motor then the restart trouble is still a separate trouble and seems certainly to be inside the handlebars or at exit point.

I'm thinking we are all going to groan when this is solved.

BTW I am very happy you are 'real' and I would still really like to see clear pictures of everything under the rider seat. Plus bike pics from all angles to determine what mods can be seen. This often helps.

One last thing: both the CPS and TPS can cause phantom troubles beyond what the factory indicated in the recall documents. We know more about this here than Yamaha knows. There is a potential that the motor shut-down could be caused by CPS or TPS or related circuit. But the horn thing muddies that. If your recalls are not completed, this would be a good time (after solving the magic horn syndrome).
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Okay so here's how I'm thinking about this.

Something is self-losing contact that is necessary for the ignition circuit to remain correctly energized.

I don't believe it is speed-sensitive so for now I'm ignoring that and will revisit if necessary. This seems helpful because the Lean Angle Sensor is not speed-sensitive (although if damaged it can act on vibration but you said this is not the case). Separately, the redline (rpm cap) system reduces motor rpm when triggered but it does not shut off the motor. And neither of these interface electrically with the horn.

In the video the motor has already stalled, and the gauge lights are on, so the power circuit thru the keyswitch is not interrupted and the start logic circuit seems to be working. I cannot see if the headlight itself remains illuminated at the time the motor shuts-down on its own.

The bike's wiring is not stock. So . . .

Near the battery in the NEG cable you will see couplings (one is black both halves and also a black/red) clean and inspect those coupling contacts and inspect for looseness that might cause momentary loss of contact. Also please take a picture of the battery NEG cable connection near the oil filler cap. I want to see what other wires connect there too. The most common reason for this bike to self-shut-down is bad battery NEG at frame, or battery POS or NEG post connection(s) are loose. However, most times the ignition circuit will shut down and then power-up again as evidenced by the tach sweep and etc. at which time the motor can be restarted. I have seen cases where stuff under the rider seat it getting crushed by rider weight, and weird things happen. Or too much crud inside the headlight bucket. But no horn needed.

Separately, do you have both horns (front right and side left) and do they both work? It's hard for me to distinguish in the video.

If it makes you happy, disconnect battery then unplug clean inspect reconnect the Rectifier-Regulator. Heck, at this point why not. I don't suspect it's inherently bad because you are not saying that you are killing your battery, and in the video the horn has power behind it and the starter works quickly to start the bike, so the motor is not stalling due to inadequate power.

With standard wiring, none of these conditions will require energizing the horn as a condition of starting the motor. So that points to the second half of the equation being inside your handlebars (or at exit point).

All of this assumes you are correct about the LAS but even then honking the horn does not usually correct it, so if the LAS is bad and shutting down the motor then the restart trouble is still a separate trouble and seems certainly to be inside the handlebars or at exit point.

I'm thinking we are all going to groan when this is solved.

BTW I am very happy you are 'real' and I would still really like to see clear pictures of everything under the rider seat. Plus bike pics from all angles to determine what mods can be seen. This often helps.

One last thing: both the CPS and TPS can cause phantom troubles beyond what the factory indicated in the recall documents. We know more about this here than Yamaha knows. There is a potential that the motor shut-down could be caused by CPS or TPS or related circuit. But the horn thing muddies that. If your recalls are not completed, this would be a good time (after solving the magic horn syndrome).
I am taking a short ride today. I have unhooked both horns to see if it makes a difference. I will give report when I return. I'm thinking about replacing the CPS, LAS, and the voltage regulator. This has me baffled. How do I find out if the recalls have been taken care of?
 

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Look in the Total Recall forum.

Also look in Documentation here:

Once you know about all recalls that may affect your model year, call Yamaha or a dealer. Give them the VIN off the steering neck (documents are sometimes wrong).
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
After a short 100 mi loop.
If I don't have at least 1 horn plugged up. It won't restart with the same trick.
Cycling the ignition switch does nothing.
Using the brake lever does nothing.
 

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'04' Warrior - Super Fine Metallic Black
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@cjworthman ... You've Not responded, completely, to my 1st bullet point in Post #44 ;)
  • What happens when you Key-OFF & Key-ON after the engine cuts-off? Do you hear the F.I. pump pressurize the fuel manifold, the speedo & Tach POST and Does the starter PB work?
 

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Well, we know the check engine light illuminates, and we know there are no error messages in the gauge or you would have mentioned it (so the cause of the motor shut-down is not supported by the system).
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
Well, we know the check engine light illuminates, and we know there are no error messages in the gauge or you would have mentioned it (so the cause of the motor shut-down is not supported by the system).
That isn't the check engine. That was the fuel light because I was almost out. The check engine light doesn't come on.
 
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