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Discussion Starter #41
If you want to calculate the actual approximate thrust forces then I would suggest you measure the spring free length and also the collapsed preloaded length (spring pocket depth) and do some simple calculations.
For measurements, I need to remove the cranckcase cover again and it's gasket and drain oil. I have no motive yet. Everything is working. I will make a much more rough estimate, as a consumer: with other equal conditions, I will compare how much the installed bearing will run by mileage. If the mileage exceeds 2500 kilometers, even an ordinary industrial Koyo bearing, for which I paid 3 bucks, will clearly look better than what Barnett use. :rolleyes:

But if you specify the bearing model used by you, which you advise, I will be grateful. The manufacturer mentioned here is practically not represented in our country, but I will try to find Koyo in similar parameters and order it in order to be ready for possible breakdowns.
 

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^^^
I would suggest using either a Koyo or VXB 7003b angular contact bearing or equivalent as they are designed for radial & thrust loads in one direction.
The Koyo 6003 bearing you're currently using is nothing more than a deep grove ball bearing though it has excellent spec's it's not designed for thrust loads.

Perhaps you can reuse your OEM bearing or pickup a T.O bearing from your Yamaha dealer. The Warrior T.O bearing is a common part number on many Yamaha motorsports vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Alan, of course I am aware that I put the wrong type of bearing. I bought it in the winter, considering the marking from the bearing purchased in the fall with a friend. I bought just in case, and comrade was need to buy in exchange for a barnett's plate with gold springs and broken bearing in it. And then I trusted him. He bought the SKF. And I do not trust this brand. Therefore I bought Koyo. But I should have studied the issue more carefully and take radial-angular. I am doing this now. But the weekend))) After a couple of days I plan to buy Koyo with a brass separator, put down motorcycle on a right side (good, there are arcs) and without draining the oil, and carefully replace the bearing in the clutch plate. At the same time I will check the actual condition of the radial bearing with red springs.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
So yesterday I received a confirmation milage. Yesterday, on a BPP with red springs and a simple radial bearing(Koyo 6003 2RS), I made the same milage - 2500 km. Moreover, my yesterday's route was passing in the beyond traffic and I used the clutch extremely active. No problems, the cable is in place, does not require adjustment, the position is stable. The work of the clutch is accurate and without problems.

At the moment, I concluded that barnett miscalculated the choice of bearing and puted some kind china-noname ****-bearing in BPP.
 

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I'm just curious why you went that way. I am not a bearing expert. But over a decade ago when I instaled my SR2 I have notes I had considered a Timken as a spare to have on-hand. I never got around to asking Barnett's advice. Thankfully today my SR2 continues to perform well. But back then I had considered this:

6003 C3 - Timken Deep Groove Radial Ball Bearings - 17x35x10mm

It seems to handle the loads and I just checked online price, its $6 or so.

I look forward to your success with the fully sealed 2RS bearing, it's just strange for the application but like I say I am no bearing expert.
 

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So yesterday I received a confirmation milage. Yesterday, on a BPP with red springs and a simple radial bearing(Koyo 6003 2RS), I made the same milage - 2500 km. Moreover, my yesterday's route was passing in the beyond traffic and I used the clutch extremely active. No problems, the cable is in place, does not require adjustment, the position is stable. The work of the clutch is accurate and without problems.

At the moment, I concluded that barnett miscalculated the choice of bearing and puted some kind china-noname ****-bearing in BPP.
As my Pappy said, 'The proof is in the pudding' ;)

 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
But back then I had considered this:
6003 C3 - Timken Deep Groove Radial Ball Bearings - 17x35x10mm
It seems to handle the loads and I just checked online price, its $6 or so.
That Koyo about which I write I bought for 3 bucks)))
Dimensions that you indicated are correct.

That 7003FY with a brass separator that I bought just in case cost me $18.

I look forward to your success with the fully sealed 2RS bearing, it's just strange for the application but like I say I am no bearing expert.
Modification 2RS or non-RS, according to the manufacturer, as I understand, affects the maximum speed of rotation. In 2RS it's lower than in non-RS. But still, limits of 2RS are much higher than the speed with which clutch hub rotates.

As my Pappy said, 'The proof is in the pudding' ;)
Well, that pudding did not happen away from home :D
 

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Discussion Starter #48
So, a simple Koyo radial bearing with a seal complete with red springs after 4000 km of ride...







I pressed out the bearing and checked. No any signs of wear or damage. It in great condition! Can put it back))

Everything said and shown so that you can see the difference between the good thing and **** that barnett sets by default :mad:





I do not consider it reasonable to put back the same(used) bearing. I believe that he would have served for a very, very long time. I believe Koyo products. Let it be a new bearing. A new Koyo)))
 

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I gotta say, and I'll mention just 1 specific person and bike as there's hundreds or thousands running red springs.
I'm confident in using red springs. I have and will still tell people yes they can. It's only a hand full if that many that have had issues with them compared to the larger number of those that run them and have no issues.

Joeyallessi has ran red springs that I installed in his bike and never had an issue in over 100 thousand miles on that set up. He would still be going now with his red springs if his engine didn't blow after a bad piston install. Lots of different types of riding and messing around.
Since then I have installed his pressure plate set into another bike and he is not having issues either.

Bottom line here, some things do have issues and that goes with EVERYTHING out there.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
Bottom line here, some things do have issues and that goes with EVERYTHING out there.
I completely agree with this statement. But here it should be noted exactly how the manufacturer decided to do.

I also agree that it's not about the effort of the springs. Not in it the cause of failure. Many users, and you, using BPP with red springs for years. And this at a time when the manufacturer used an ordinary ball bearing. And there were no problems. As I see, the representative of Barnett is present here for a long time and he never mentioned that he does not recommend the use of red springs. He was silent. But as soon as the complaint appeared, the representative immediately referred to the suspension of warranty obligations.

If that radial Koyo bearing that I put in place of the broken one also broke, I would accept the barnett version about red springs, the version of any one about failure, accidental failure without explanation. But in my case, everything is obvious. The bearing in the current version of BPP is crappy.

My task was to show the error of barnett. I conducted an experiment by installing an ordinary rolling bearing in BPP. And BPP worked correct with it almost twice the distance.

So now I will ask Barnett a question again to confirm their decision of the warranty. It will not surprise me if they continue to refer to the use of red springs and refuse support. But if in the subsequent batches of the BPP the bearing is replaced, it will actually prove their wrong calculation, their mistake in choosing the components.

I want to repeat the fact, in our country, especially in large cities, there is much more dense traffic and traffic between the lanes is not a crime. Therefore, we use the "gray zone" of clutch much more often and more intensively. It is from here that some messages about the destruction of the BPP bearing (and the factory plate, sometimes) even with soft gold springs. Speech about cases with an ordinary radial bearing. I suppose that in case of using BPP with a bearing with a textolite separator there will be more complaints. And, I think, on both sides of the ocean.

In any case, in the current situation, the choice of bearing is wrong. Mistake. Everyone can. It is only important to respond correctly. Time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
At the moment, more than 7000km I has already rided up.

I remind that for this moment I use the BPP with a set of RED springs, which does not recommend a barnett. The Koyo 7003FY bearing that I replaced instead of a broken bearing in the BPP with a plastic cage now works great!

Do not install the BPP as it is, change it's ****-weak bearing to good one and everything will be fine ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #53
SO! As I said earlier:
But if in the subsequent batches of the BPP the bearing is replaced, it will actually prove their wrong calculation, their mistake in choosing the components.
They replaced the bearing with another angular contact bearing. In appearance, now there is no plastic, but the steel separator. This proves my assumption that in the previous version of the BPP, the barnett craped with the choice of a bearing. Looks like a small bully, not a large manufacturer, who decided to try to deceive the consumer))

In the new version of the pressure plate, a different bearing is installed and additional recesses are made in the body of the plate to facilitate removal of the outer bearing cage. One user puted the BPP, which he ordered a month ago and posted a photo.



In general, will bernett be a courage to admit a mistake...or not - now IT IS OBVIOUS.
 

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You have a good eye and are well informed and also up to date on the Barnett pressure plate changes freeezzzz.
This is useful information and it's neat to see that the manufacturer has recognized the bearing issue and has also added 3 machined eyebrows for extracting the bearing by applying force to the outer race with a tool.
Thanks :)

It's unfortunate that Yamaha Engineering didn't include machined pockets in their cast wheels for the removal of the ball bearings!
 

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Discussion Starter #55
I think the whole thing is the differences in the types of bearings. In original configuration of Yamaha was used a conventional rolling bearing . It has a width of the outer cage is sufficient for trouble-free extraction. But yes, such design changes are a useful improvement.
 

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VXB supplied the nylon caged angular contact bearings to Barnett and for many years.
There hasn't been a big failure rate with them with the Warrior, Road star's, Stratoliners, or Raiders.
Not more then OEM pressure plate radial ball bearings or the first Barnett pressure plate radial bearings.

VXB also now and has and does supply Barnett with the steel cage angular contact bearings.
Bearings fail and through all the years both with OEM pressure plate bearings and Barnett pressure plate bearing failures I don't see a big issue with the nylon caged bearings.

I don't know why you guys over there have had so many issues with them.



Rudy Jeremias (rij1)
 

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Barnett Tool & Engineering has been around for over 70 years as a major supplier to a portion of the Powersports Industry but doesn't disclose or advertise that they are QS9000 or any version there of on their web site.

Back in Dec 2007 correspondence to them, Barnett Clutch Spring Conv's SR-2 Rev A - UPDATED, they tracked/identified their date of manufacturing on the package box as shown here: My $.02 and not the machined part.
The P/N has changed over the years but I don't see any manufacturing date ID code unless on the rear.
Also, never mentioned, but by this writer in days gone bye, Barnett also modified the design to a fully machined spur/gear tooth around the total perimeter of the PP to increase its strength (y)(y)

That being the case it's really very difficult to establish what parts are on the other side of the pond and the Eastern Bloc countries and further many of their parts are sold by non authorized dealers imho.

That being said, imho, I agree with freeezzzz that a Nylon cage bearing has no place on the Warrior as the maximum RPM the bearing will ever achieve is less than 3590 rpm. This is high torque application and not high speed.
  • The primary reduction ratio of our ride is 72/47 = 1.532 = Theoretical 5500rpm/1.532 = 3590 rpm
These general numbers were stated very early on by the OP :)

On another note, I can't ever remember reading of a TOB failure with the factory PP on this forum but I've been wrong before ;)

 
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