Thanks for the Info. Must be nice to have all those gages mounted where you can monitor them.

 

That sensor relocator in the speedstar kit is exactly the same as the one in the PR kit, are you saying Yamaha and PR dropped the ball? I'd expect that from the Barrons kit as it's more cosmetic. I never reached that range of numbers on a dyno after I adjusted the PC3 map and that was a static environment, ie. lots of heat being produced. Are you positive your readings are right on? Sounds like you're seeing a variation which is possible, but that much definatley has me wondering.

 

Here is the first dumb question of 04.... understand your comments, would turning the sensor upside down on a BSR or Barons plate make any difference...... the sensor tip would presumably then get some cooler air???

 

A dyno is different than slow stop and go. On the dyno you have two fans blowing fresh air to your engine. In stop and go you have almost not air movement.
I would not say anybody dropped a ball.
There is just an opportunity to make something better for those situations when it gets tough on the engine. Both Yamaha and PR also OE tell you to not run an aircooled VTwin in hot wheater in stop and go traffic with the bike moving below 10mph.
However sometimes you don't have a choice. That's the situation that can be improved. A different design will not be perfect but it might make it X% better. That's what I am looking for.
I am also thinking about hiding a small fan or two under the tank to get more air circulation.

 

quote:Originally posted by longdrives

Here is the first dumb question of 04.... understand your comments, would turning the sensor upside down on a BSR or Barons plate make any difference...... the sensor tip would presumably then get some cooler air???


I doubt it as the entire sensor is a solid piece of brass.

 

Interesting news. Thanks for posting it. I would have thought that the AP sensor would have played a more significant role in determining fuel requirements. Doesn't the ECU monitor EGT? If so, it's curious that the ECU could not correct for the temp sensor error given the 3 sources of data.

Is it possible that the air gets more dense the closer you get to the Mexican border? Turbulence due to the money flying across the border since the N.A.F.T.A.? But that's a topic for another thread.

 

Like the fan idea Oliver. Between the kazoo the cams and a fan there'd be a regular symphony at a traffic light. About riding in hot weather and not moving, try main street during bike week, I know exactly what you're saying. Next time on the dyno I'm gonna try your theory out-no fans. Your point should be taken at the very least: "don't hammer your bike while in traffic", regardless of the A/F #s' heat is what kills the oil and wears down your motor.

 

Hi Frank,

Good catch. I have often wondered about this very issue as these sensors are pretty sensitive. I am thinking that it may be possible to relocate the sensor to one of the K&N filters (through a hole in the top cover?), thereby sensing true intake air temp. Any thoughts on that?

Snake

 

quote:Originally posted by dkpickard

Hi Frank,

Good catch. I have often wondered about this very issue as these sensors are pretty sensitive. I am thinking that it may be possible to relocate the sensor to one of the K&N filters (through a hole in the top cover?), thereby sensing true intake air temp. Any thoughts on that?

Snake


Snake,

That might be the solution. Still thinking about whether I want to do that or mount it just ouside of the filter.

I will keep you posted.

Oliver

 

Frankenstein, I was curious about the drivability of the big air kits in real world conditions. In particular the temp sensor. Thanks for the input.
By the way, Congrats on W.O.M. nice ride.
even if it does need a tranny/emoticons/emotion-6.gif sigh

 

I got a suggestion for a different mounting point, if you sit on your warrior as a referance to left and right side, you will notice on the right side just ahead of the gas tank there is a square mounting tab on the frame, i have at one time drilled a slightly bigger hole(dont remember if there was one already in it) and mounted the temp sensor in there, the sensor is faceing strait into the wind, i got this idea from a tuning center that was missing HP on a busa drag bike. They found out it was a temp sensor and mounted it outside in front and the bike got the HP back from the cooler reading.I didnt notice a difference way back so i just got it in the plate like everyone else does now and a rubber plug in the hole i had it in, just a sugestion for ya!

 

I moved my sensor a while back, I noticed a difference in the way the bike ran in hot weather, and stop & go traffic. The air temp sensor stayed closer to ambiant (spelling ?) temp. I put a pic. in the gallery of the sensor mounting.

 

I was concerned about this issue, so I made a relocation bracket with the sensor mounted between the air filters, inside a rubber grommet to insulate it from the aluminum plate. Seems to work well.

Image Insert:

 

Relocating the Air temp sensor is like installing a lower thermostat in your auto, you'll tweak the fuel curve by having a cooler operating temp only to richen up the mixture. Kind of a poor mans chip. I like the placment closer to actual temp readings at or near the air filters. Putting it into the wind may seem like a good idea but with a PC3 I wouldn't need to richen the mixture anymore than it already is programmed to do. This topic is intriguing, I'm planning on installing Churchkeys stainless V-stacks, I'm gonna drill a hole and weld a bung into the stack and mount the sensor into the stack with the most clearance around it.

 

How about just drilling a hole in the top of the rubber filter pod, ive tried that too already,and it will be cooler being surrounded by the rubber?

 

Good reading fella's

Kyle

 

Locating the sensor either inside or just outside of the air filter should be fine, but I think the most important thing is to insulate it from absorbing heat from any surrounding metal, so you get a true reading of the air, just as Frankenstein has suggested.

 

I think that would be the best way Bunker. Don't cheet the sensor, It should be reading the temp of the air that is going into the throttle bodies. Giving it cooler air than the intakes will make the motor hard to adjust properly, because the diffrence of the sensor reading and the actual air temp going in won't always be the same..

 

All have sense. I installed it like ROADWARRIOR but start thinking that the oposite may occur too. When you turn on your bike it will start flowing to much gas because of the cold air and will foulled your sparks. So I reverse the mount and continue with the Barons mounting place. An A/F reading of 14.7/1 is the perfect ratio.

 

good info guys i just want to add thatsince i solder and braise alot of brass i can tell you that the temp readings are going to be slow to change anyway,the brass is dense enough that it will retain heat or cold much longer than you would expect so i suspect that the brass temp sensor is almost always a minute or two behind the actual temp,so if you are riding on the highway for instance at a constant speed it will be consistant,but if you are going slow,fast slow fast,like in city traffic even in optimum conditions the sensor will be slightly late,relocating may help but you will always have the delay,i like the idea of having it near the air filters.

 

I just got pointed to this post.Good reading.
I was out the other day and my engine light came on.I wander if the air temp sensor would set this off?It went out after getting moving again.Have you guys done any of this that you talked about in this thread?I am thinking maybe it set the light off because it got to hot on the sensor?

 

maybe half way, that is, locate the sensor somewhere in the middle, between air filters and half into throttle bodies or an air scoop? would get readings from both sides. outside with inside. maybe an air to air compromise? hmm. or would that be too unstable? if so, maybe make it stable if it works.
pretty good debate we all have here. i'm interested in knowing results and/or more ideas for i too will be going through this dillema. lot's of stop n go traffic here in dallas with plenty of heat coming up in summer. oh yeah, a lot of times with too much humidity as well. don't want to start a fire with my bike.
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