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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2002 warrior. Churchkey vbak, pcv, ais block off, lithium battery, cobra pipes, nee decompression solenoid. Recently it has become hard to start. Clock will blank out and reset. Ive replace the air pressure sensor# 2 but its still hard to start. When clock blanks out code 25 appears. It got hard to start (at random) before I replaced decompression solenoid. Any help would be appreciated.
 

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Okay I revisited your decompression thread and this thread. So 2 checks first.

1. See bottom of page 6-24 for Code 25. Notice the connector wire colors for this jug #2 intake air pressure sensor. Be sure the sensor wires are correct. You do that by following the vacuum hose off that sensor to be certain it connects to jug2 (front jug)(trace intake off the front jug, it's a v2 motor so everything is angled). The vacuum and electrical signals need to originate from the same jug. For more information to check all 3 of these sensors there is a document in the Documentation forum, see that table of contents. Then manually browse to check all 3 of these sensors while in there anyway.

I doubt it's the sole cause of your trouble but it can cause hard starting and over time it can, in conjunction with short-rides and sitting time, tax battery voltage. Check them carefully first just to take them off the table.

2. Your battery is very possibly the trouble but let's do a couple checks to see if it's guilty or innocent before moving on. First remove NEG then POS from battery. Clean if needed. Follow NEG to its connection to the main frame (near the oil filler cap). Spray lightly with WD40 or similar in order to seep into threads to aid removal. Inspect all connections at the ground lug. Clean the lug and fastener. Fix anything needing attention. Reassemble. Run fastener onto the lug by hand until it's fully engaged. Then use a Socket to land the fastener onto the wire stack, tweak the wires to settle the electrical terminals, then gently tighten until the electrical terminal stack is fully flat. Then momentarily just tweak it tight and leave it alone. I think it's only 5 ft lbs torque. Now, while battery NEG and POS are still removed, slow charge the battery.

Now after those steps disconnect the charger. Attach POS then attach NEG.

Start the bike. If there is improvement then see how things go and if it starts happening again then test the charging system according to the manual, and if charging is okay then take the battery to a part store or batteries plus for deep cycle testing. Replace the battery if indicated.

If EVERYTHING checks out then describe your activities here, and what you observed at each step, and let's use that eyes-on to pick what's next. Please don't just say you did everything. Please help us by providing your activity and what you observed if anything. Troubleshooting by remote is already hard enough. 🤪
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The shorai lithium battery is brand new. Maybe three weeks old. I put that battery in there thinking my original normal battery was losing some amperage. I’ll check the connections this coming week and post back. At idle I’m getting good voltage to the battery too
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Okay I revisited your decompression thread and this thread. So 2 checks first.

1. See bottom of page 6-24 for Code 25. Notice the connector wire colors for this jug #2 intake air pressure sensor. Be sure the sensor wires are correct. You do that by following the vacuum hose off that sensor to be certain it connects to jug2 (front jug)(trace intake off the front jug, it's a v2 motor so everything is angled). The vacuum and electrical signals need to originate from the same jug. For more information to check all 3 of these sensors there is a document in the Documentation forum, see that table of contents. Then manually browse to check all 3 of these sensors while in there anyway.

I doubt it's the sole cause of your trouble but it can cause hard starting and over time it can, in conjunction with short-rides and sitting time, tax battery voltage. Check them carefully first just to take them off the table.

2. Your battery is very possibly the trouble but let's do a couple checks to see if it's guilty or innocent before moving on. First remove NEG then POS from battery. Clean if needed. Follow NEG to its connection to the main frame (near the oil filler cap). Spray lightly with WD40 or similar in order to seep into threads to aid removal. Inspect all connections at the ground lug. Clean the lug and fastener. Fix anything needing attention. Reassemble. Run fastener onto the lug by hand until it's fully engaged. Then use a Socket to land the fastener onto the wire stack, tweak the wires to settle the electrical terminals, then gently tighten until the electrical terminal stack is fully flat. Then momentarily just tweak it tight and leave it alone. I think it's only 5 ft lbs torque. Now, while battery NEG and POS are still removed, slow charge the battery.

Now after those steps disconnect the charger. Attach POS then attach NEG.

Start the bike. If there is improvement then see how things go and if it starts happening again then test the charging system according to the manual, and if charging is okay then take the battery to a part store or batteries plus for deep cycle testing. Replace the battery if indicated.

If EVERYTHING checks out then describe your activities here, and what you observed at each step, and let's use that eyes-on to pick what's next. Please don't just say you did everything. Please help us by providing your activity and what you observed if anything. Troubleshooting by remote is already hard enough. 🤪
By jug do you mean cylinder? So what would the front cylinder be called versus the rear? And when reading 6-24 it talks about main harness vs sub lead. Whats the sub lead?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good battery voltage. First start of the day start it up no problem. Bike sat for about two hours trying to start again very hard start. Rode back home over a lunch break started back up an hour later no problem. Bike said again for about two hours had a small hiccup trying to start and then made it home. I’m taking the tank off now to see what I see
254229
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This is the connector I’m looking at correct? The vacuum line from the sensor runs to the left throttlebody(riders position)
254230
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I read this plug out end to end for continuity and shorts to each other and the ground. That checks good. I’ve replaced some of the worn vacuum line and everything appears to be routed correctly
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Is there a faint smell of fuel on harder starts?

The main harness goes everywhere. The is a sub-lead between the main harness and each device for maintenance purposes.
Sometimes if its taking extra long/ multiple attemps to start
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
After sitting for about two hours I measured the battery voltage again and it’s at 13.6. I did notice when I went to crank the bike and drop down to almost 11 flat
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Just put everything back together and it fired up on the first crank 😭
 

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Is the 14.04v measured with the key off not running?

Post a pic of what is under the tank.

Tell me you performed all of suggested step 2 in post #3. Bad battery connections are the number-one reason for clock-resetting.

What is your bike's WARM IDLE RPM? Spec is 850~950rpm. The oil pump and magneto are gear driven. If warm idle is too low then oil flow and battery charge are reduced.

What battery charger are you using? Let's be certain its lithium friendly. Candidly hopefully it's the Shorai charger as it charges all cells independently. Low battery power or a weak cell is the number-two reason for clock-resetting and one reason for hard starting.

I'm going to point you to the Documentation forum to actually verify all three air pressure sensors are connected correctly. Yes jug means cylinder. Jug#1 is the rear one. Jug#2 is the front one. Check wire colors and hose connections and be certain the ambient one has no hose. Look at the two appropriate attachments here and compare carefully to your bike's conditions:

Also please snack on every post in the following:


Whether or not you have already fixed the problems above, you still need to learn wassup with the Code 25 displaying. Dig through all of Chapter 6. Start with a solid read-through. Then brush-up on when a Code is accompanied by check engine light (CEL) illuminating. Then pdf-search for criteria '25' and discover all the things that can actually generate Code 25. Also perform a deletion step to delete all codes in history. Compare your observations to Chapter 6.

Finally, no matter the outcome of everything thus far, go to Documentation forum Table of Contents find Setting up the Warrior for Tuning and download the help file. Use that to write your own process procedure to establish tune baseline. Then tune your Warrior.

History tells me that what's been suggested here will 99% lead you to the fix, even if it's just getting you to a spot where you stumble across it. I'm here less and less, demands elsewhere, if you post descriptively enough to document your work and observations then others will jump-in. Luck to ya brother. The trouble associated with this is 99% of the time so minor it's brushed-by in the agony of trouble shooting :p.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Measured voltage of the battery first thing this morning after sitting all night. voltage is 13.7 key off, 13.55 key on, big voltage drop first start this morning. Went down to 8 volts while cranking. Off to work for now. Im going to pick up a shorai charger for it and see if balancing the cells helps out. I’ll. Will post More as I get around to looking into it. And yes I have checked all proper connections of the three air pressure sensors. Picture of idle attached. Stays between 850-950.
254237
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Battery load tested good and I picked up a shorai battery charger. Local Cycle gear guy tested it. When the load was applied I saw the needle go to the middle of the weak section but he’s telling me that’s normal for a lithium battery. Said as long as the battery doesn’t go under 11 V it’s good. I’m still on the fence about that one but we’ll see if the battery tender balances it out a little better and picks it up. I’ll leave it overnight and will update in the morning if it starts normal. When I put it all back together I did make sure all the battery terminals were tight and clean. all fuses have also been checked for good continuity. Could the starter be getting weak and not kicking it over enough? Notices that cable was a little loose. Cleaned and tightened it up. Struggled to start after cleaning connections and putting back together. On the charger for the night now. Thing to add, commute to work is 7 miles one way 5 days a week. Maybe its not recharging enough in that time?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I started all this hard start stuff off with the replacement of decompression solenoid. How far is it supposed to kick out? Ive heard decompression faults cause the starter to pull too power battery power. Oh and another thing CEL has never come on when code 25 displayed. Bike just fails to start and 25 displays on dash for couple seconds and disappears
 

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Okay, since Code 25 appears after no-start and no CEL, let's ignore the Code 25 for now.

Next, you mentioned you got a shorai charger, then you mentioned battery tender. Those are completely different tools. Which did you get? The Shorai has a 4-contact plug in the side between the terminals. 4-wire design for computer control of 4-cells independently.

If it's Shorai then plug it into the battery and then plug it into the charger and LAST plug the charger into the wall. The default start-up when doing that is the charger tests the battery, then drains-charges-drains-charges conditioning the cells. Then it automatically charges. Then it automatically goes into store mode. Leave it in store mode for several hours.

Then when ready to ride, unplug the pigtail from the charger (then unplug the charger from the wall). Leave the 4-plug installed in the battery. Use the rubber boot to protect the exposed plug. Gently lay the pigtail into a low spot (avoid the top of the fuel pump). See how it starts.

BTW a 7 mile ride is going to be enough to charge beyond the starting discharge.

Don't bother twisting the throttle. Just press go.

I put mine in neutral on the side stand, touch the button and it always starts instantly. Except on near-freezing cold starts you bump go for two seconds, release, then bump go a second time and it starts. The first bump heats the battery.

11v is marginal to start the motor. If nothing else is wrong and it starts first try.

The decompression mechanism moves enough to see it, but still it's travel is not very far. Check the manual for distance.

The starter is among the next things to be checked if the Shorai brand charger does not solve the mystery. Also in the mix might be finding out what lighting mods your Beast has and checking for COD. But not now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
I picked up the shorai charger yesterday. Neatly installed pigtail in bike. I put it on the “charge” setting. Tried starting last night, but was still difficult after it indicated charge complete. Bike still struggled. I will try the “store” setting tonight. I verified decompression solenoid movement by taking cover off. It has plenty of travel. The bike does have all LED lights. COD was fixed by placing a relay (coil side) in line with the old license plate lighting connector and hidden under the fender. Previous owner modified the plate mount so no license plate light, but in looking at the schematics the decompression solenoid uses from blinkers to bleed off power, if it cannot it goes to rear blinkers, from there last option is plate light. I have not had anymore COD issues after relay install. Bike will get 1-2 decent cranks and fall flat on its face. Bumping trottle has no effect. Will be replacing spark plugs in the next couple days. Looking at Ngk DPR DPR7EIX-9. Ive had the bike since march and haven’t done plugs yet. 17k on the bike so dont know when the last time they were changed. Just been slowly freshening it up since im not certain of vehicle history. Gear oil and clutch are on that list too, but down the road a bit.
 

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Don't run just charge or just store. Do what I said and let the charger run its recovery program, its precisely the best way to go.

Glad you have a cod fix in one of the correct spots. Just for others who follow, its the front RUNNING light blue wire in the headlight bucket, or the license plate light wire, that get the cod fix. It's not the turn signal circuit (which happens to share bulbs with the running lights up front).
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Difficult to start this morning. I will let the charger run the recovery/ store program after work today. Should have a solid 15+ hour window to cycle. Isnt the store program setting apart of the recovery program? I was reading the manual and it talks of store program charge and discharge sequence from 60-80%
 
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