[FitFrank]

Ok, here's the story, I'll try to keep it short:
Bike has been very low at idle for a while, didn't worry me, just creeping down each time I used it. Parked up at work and started bike, got an Error 2 on display just before it started - (atmospheric pressure in manual). it was very cold and foggy that day, so I put it down to extreme conditions.

Next day, low idle replaced by high idle, about 1.4k, not happy about that, so thought I'd better look into that atmospheric pressure thing and also check my LCV connections, look for leaks etc.

Tried bike again, still high idle, now its giving me a TPS code 15 (if I remember correctly) I happened to have a spare TPS, so I connected that up, idle seemed slightly better - (maybe pot luck on how I positioned it) daylight was going, so I figured it would have to do for today - would perhaps revisit and figure out how to set up that TPS properly later in week.

Go fetch helmet for test ride, warning light appears, error 12 CPS. - Can't figure out wether to believe that or not, seemed to run fine down to petrol station and back.

Engine idle is still a bit high at 1100k revs, can't lower it with the adjuster knob under seat, its already off the scale (resting position on throttle bodies) It did come down slowly to nearer 900 by time I got home

Also - I noticed when I turned off the engine, I hear a ratchet sound in the LCV - could that be the source of all my problems? ie: operating at higher revs due to choke stuck in on position? I don't normally hear it ratchet like that.

Can I pull off the hoses and squirt oil in there? Would that help to free any mechanical parts, or would that simply damage rubber seals or whatever it's got in there?

Any other tips, suggestions, etc? I'm pretty stumped with electrics, I think things go a bit haywire at times due to age - for instance, I re-routed some cables behind the coils and caused havoc earlier this year till I got them freed up - lot of pinched cables etc on the loom.

 

[FitFrank]

I have an idea I know the cause of my problem - very low oil level, I have a leak & I topped it up a bit, which has helped to bring the tick over back down. Incredible, but it could be that.

I had the head off a while back, didn’t bother to replace the crush washers on the oil feed pipe, so I got a leak there, didn’t put 2+2 together & tightened it more, the threads stripped out, so I ended up having to helicoil the hole, it’s still leaking, like a fine spray, but apparently much more disastrously than I realised. I never would have guessed those crush washers were so important, once they been crushed, they’re done, almost never replaced them on oil change, or on brakes, but those on the head caught me out big time, I’m looking at buying a 2nd hand head cos of that

 

[FitFrank]

I bought the correct washers when I went to fix the leak, but it was too late, threads were already weakened

 

[FitFrank]

Feel like a dumb [email protected] now - all that crap, only reason I checked the oil was after I saw burn spots on the down pipe & realised the leak must be far worse than I thought

 

[arizonawarrior]

Holidays are getting in the way, not much help offered in this. It sounds like you have identified a solution so there is not much use in my jumping-in. One thing I'm left wondering about is if you used the Yamaha Video posted in The Welcome Mat forum as your method of checking the motor oil level. Anyway I'm sure others will chime-in.

 

[FitFrank]

Hi AW, thanks for chipping in, yes, I am familiar with the oil video.
Today I have used the bike to work and back, seems to run nice, but the warning light is still lit, shall maybe try disconnecting the battery and see if it clears, I just tried the diagnostic clear procedure and that didn't help. I'm still seeing the number 12 as a fault code (not when riding, just in the diag process, that doesn't make much sense to me, as my manual lists 12 as unable to start / unable to run, when clearly that's not the case.

I thought my low oil was causing the higher tick over, but not so sure now, I topped it up but tick over still a little high (even at the bottom of the adjuster) - so I shall check the TPS if I'm able to figure that out.

That thing with the oil leak is a nightmare, can't believe I did that to my bike, first the head stud bolts were messed up so I got a new head (2nd hand) now that's got messed up threads in the oil flow thing - its definitely leaking, it blows forwards through the fins leaving a wet stain and specks of oil on the downpipe 😤

 

[arizonawarrior]

My thoughts based on your posts.

The self diagnostic fault code (in this case 12) will remain in history until resolved. It is resolved because the motor starts. So it's just in history.

The mystery is why the check engine light remains illuminated. I gather there is just the one (12) code in the list. I also gather there is no Er code in the gauge while riding or when shutting down the motor using the handlebar off switch (key-off kills power to gauge).

If accurate, I've only seen it happen once, pre-recall for the cps (pick-up-coil). The vibration would mess with continuity. But it didn't take long to fail completely. So it seems more likely there is another code in history (see chapter 6 for scrolling through).

A plan of attack might be to revisit 6-5. Then 6-18. Then 6-31. But this suggestion is only driven by your observations posted. If nothing solves it then it might be a case where you need to start fresh with no preconceptions or assumptions. These things are pesky.

Plus, who knows, it could be something simple that is just being masked from us "readers" by bits you mention that might be editorial rather than observational.

 

[FitFrank]

I shall do the oil video when I'm next able on Sunday, the last time I saw an engine warning light, that was the reason + solution.

As for the weird tick over, I shall look into that some more, if I can't figure it out, I'm prepared to go to a dealer, as I really am stumped - not keen tho, as usually find them expensive and time consuming.

Last summer, in the hottest weather, on a trip in heavy traffic, the bike over heated every few miles - I found that if I pulled over and rested 10mins it would restart, I had this problem on very hot days in heavy traffic many times over the last 5 years or so, I'm wondering if a sensor is playing up, it seems odd, it never used to do that, but then the weather has got hotter lately, and it only ever does it in heavy traffic. I can feel the heat off the engine on those occasions. Its not a problem on the daily work run, as the bike doesn't get that hot over 7 miles, and its not a problem on the country lane jaunts I do, cos I never go into heavy traffic - if I go to a city, in max temps, its so bad I think I need to sell the bike! That 02 code I saw starting the bike the other day, in extreme cold & damp is the first clue I had that maybe related to that problem. I'm assuming it's not normal, even for an air-cooled bike, after all, the UK isn't known for its hot weather, or perhaps it is to be expected?

I was just re-reading your list, I went out to the bike and switched it on, it had a 23 on the dash I never noticed before - ran the bike, (code disappeared) switched off at the cut switch, got the 23 again - perhaps that's the next thing to test that Atmospheric pressure sensor and/or buy another one / test wiring etc. I have seen them cheap 2nd hand, so I'm not too scared by that at least.

 

[arizonawarrior]

For code 23 go to chapter 6 and locate the steps for identifying fix opportunities. It might be a wire, not a sensor.

For the motor running too hot, identify if your air:fuel ratio is in spec range by removing one spark plug from each jug, obviously one at a time, and "read" the spark plug tips and porcelain and threads with an eye to overly-lean air:fuel conditions.

Additionally, notice there are three identical air pressure sensors. The AMBIENT air pressure sensor does not have a vacuum hose attached. The two INTAKE air pressure sensors for cylinder1 and cylinder2 have vacuum hoses running to their specific cylinder. ALL 3 sensors have electric plugs that also run to the applicable cylinder (so match vac and elect connections).

 

[FitFrank]

Thanks again for the help, I just got my multi meter out and got tank off, the connector to the atmospheric pressure sensor was disconnected - no wonder I got that 23 warning, doh, I must be getting senile!

that connector was fine earlier, I must have left it off last time. I now think the warning light was low oil, and then it didn’t go out because Iforgot to reconnect the atmosphere pressure sensor, on the left side of the bike.

I shall go and test ride the bike & see how things go, I do need to look at these other problems, such as the oil leak & overheating, it’s a bit difficult at this time of year as I’m working outdoors & it keeps raining etc

I’ll see where I am later, when the mrs moves her car I can hop on the bike & get out the garden

just disconnected the atmosphere pressure sensor & it does reproduce the engine warning light, so that’s some progress at least

 

[freeezzzz]

Warrior has no oil pressure sensor

 

[FitFrank]

Warrior has no oil pressure sensor

Atmosphere Pressure Sensor!
[Edit] Atmospheric Pressure Sensor - see manual

 

[FitFrank]

I have some good news - my oil leak is not from the helicoiled oil feed that I did - I wrapped a bit of rag round it, and it was spotless, so I probably just have to re-torque the rocker arm base / cover - Good!

Looked at the code 62 thing and cleared faults now shows 0

Oil level is fine after meticulous follow of video

Checked voltage on the Atmospheric Pressure cable, correct tolerance

Tick-over problem remains - I made a video, its all over the place, I'm not touching the throttle or anything else - its all up and down, do you think I need to look at LCV, or remove and clean my throttle bodies, or look at TPS or CPS or any other ideas??

I should also mention, the tick over adjuster under the seat is all the way out, ie, if I screwed it in, it would only be higher - it should be so low it would need bumping up, but its resting is already as high as shown
[Edit] the connectors seen around my dash are just electric heated grips cables)

VID 20230101 140021092

uneven tickover

youtube.com

 

[FitFrank]

I think it was the LCV causing my problems, I tried the block off thing others have done on this site and my tick over at warm was quite acceptable.

Now I'm wondering if that LCV has been misbehaving for some years, for instance, the over heating is summer and also it has been difficult to balance the throttle bodies, its too dark now to have another go at those.

When I went for a test ride, it all seemed fine, accelerating, not backfiring or anything, tick over was still a bit high on the lowest setting, but other than that, it seemed ok, it was only when I stopped and let the tick over rest that it was all still wrong. I opened it up to over 100mph, just in case that would clear it, well - you got to try haven't you?

Here's what I did under the hood, I run with the original silencer air box thing under the tank, so at the moment I just blocked those 2 pipes and seems to be good to go.

\tickover fixed

 

[freeezzzz]

Look here for a topic about cleaning the LCV.

 

[FitFrank]

Look here for a topic about cleaning the LCV.

Yes, I saw that - I shall have a go at it, I took it off, but the screws were really jammed tight, I was gonna use a blowtorch to heat the threads, but there’s a plastic cover so in the end I just sprayed some wd40 inside and left it at that, I may try again, or just get another cheap used one on eBay.
Those LCV retaining bolts are so fiddly, I said to my mrs, cos I was struggling to get one in straight that I didn’t know wether to carry on or just kill my self! Ha, well she got nimble fingers, got the job done for me 😅

 

[freeezzzz]

Yeah))) And working with battery box I hate too. Same reason

 

[FitFrank]

Been there once, don’t want to go again!😂😂

 

[FitFrank]

Not sure if the plot has thickened or not - I got myself a used LCV on eBay for £30. seems a good buy, in good condition, came with the hoses, so as they were in better condition than mine (one of mine had a bit of tape round a small leak) I replaced them while I was in there.

Went to work on bike Friday, the tick over while cold was low rather than high, once warmed up, tick over nice and stable as set. Work Monday was nearly zero weather wise, bike took 3 stabs to start, ran with low tick over again until warmed up.

Wouldn't a working LCV raise the tick over till properly warmed? It makes me think I still have a problem of some sort. Its not too much hassle as long as I get from A to B, but I'm worried if it gets into sub-zero conditions, I may not be able to start at all - the bike now seems to run just as it did when I had my LCV blocked off rather than connected.

My original problem was high tick over, off the lowest adjuster scale, fixed by blocking off the LCV, now its acting as if it's still blocked off, ie: ticking over nicely, but is this newer LCV even working now? I'm having to hold the throttle open to keep running until warmed through, as if I had no LCV! Argh!

I can live without the LCV as long as the bike still starts in sub zero conditions, so that's now my main worry. On the open road, bike seems to run fine, no backfires or pops, just speed

 

[alanh]

@FitFrank ... If your Shut-Down procedure is using the Engine Cut-Off Switch, then the LCV will NOT function probably. If this is your case, then Cycle the Ignition Key twice. This will allow the LCV to open for the cold start.
Here's several links:

• LCV (linear control valve) 101
• How long does it take for you to start your warrior?
• LCV 101: