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Discussion Starter #1
I was looking through Yamaha's Web site and was comparing Years, and i noticed on the 02's they had a Digital CDI ignition, and on the newer models they are equipted with a Digital TCI ignition. What are the pro's /con's if any one knows, just kind of curious

Also did anynotice the new 07's got a little taller and heaver!!
 

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Ignitions look the same to me but your right on the other stuff.. The bike upper forks are 1/2 shorter?


Engine 2006 Midnight Warrior
2007 Warrior

Bore x Stroke 97mm x 113mm 97mm x 113mm

Compression Ratio 8.3:1 8.3:1

Final Drive Belt Belt

Fuel Delivery Twin-bore Fuel Injection, w/throttle position sensor Twin-bore Fuel Injection, w/throttle position sensor

Ignition Digital TCI Digital TCI

Transmission 5-speed, close-ratio, w/multi-plate wet clutch 5-speed, close-ratio, w/multi-plate wet clutch

Type 102 cubic-inch (1670cc), pushrod OHV, air-cooled, 48-degree V-twin, 4-valve per cyclinder 102 cubic-inch (1670cc), air-cooled, pushrod overhead 48-degree V-twin; 4-valve per cylinder


Chassis 2006 Midnight Warrior
2007 Warrior

Brakes/Front Dual 298mm Discs Dual 298mm Discs

Brakes/Rear 282mm Disc 282mm Disc

Suspension/Front 41mm Kayaba inverted telescopic fork, 5.3" travel 41mm Kayaba inverted telescopic fork, 5.3" of travel

Suspension/Rear Single shock, link-type w/adjustable preload and rebound damping; 4.3" travel Single shock, link-type w/adjustable preload and rebound damping; 4.3" travel

Tires/Front 120/70-ZR18 Radial 120/70-ZR18 Radial

Tires/Rear 200/50-ZR17 Radial 200/50-ZR17 Radial


Dimensions 2006 Midnight Warrior
2007 Warrior

Dry Weight 606 lb. 613 lb.

Fuel Capacity 4 gal. 4.0 gal.

Ground Clearance 6.1" 6.1"

Height 43.9" 44.1"

Length 93.9" 93.9"

Seat Height 28.1" 28.1"

Wheelbase 65.6" 65.6"

Width 36.8" 36.8"


Other 2006 Midnight Warrior
2007 Warrior

Warranty 1 Year (Limited Factory Warranty) 1 Year (Limited Factory Warranty)

MSRP* $12,699 Midnight Warrior (Onyx)
$12,549 (Sapphire Blue/Liquid Silver Flames) Available from August 2006
$12,449 (Charcoal Silver/Silver) Available from August 2006


My Bad 2002 Warrior


SPECIFICATIONS:
2002 YAMAHA ROAD STAR WARRIOR
Engine Type fuel-injected 1670cc (102 cu. in.) OHV air-cooled V-twin
Bore And Stroke 97 x 113mm
Compression Ratio 8.3:1
Ignition digital capacitive discharge
Transmission five-speed w/multiplate wet clutch
Final Drive belt
Front Suspension 41mm Kayaba inverted telescopic fork
Rear Suspension single shock, link-type w/adjustable preload
Front Brakes dual 298mm discs
Rear Brake single 282mm disc
Tires f: 120/70ZR16
r: 200/50ZR17
Length 94.1 in.
Width 37.5 in.
Height 44.2 in.
Seat Height 28.1 in.
Ground Clearance 5.9 in.
Wheelbase 65.7 in.
Dry Weight 606 lb
Fuel Capacity 4 gal.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
06 vs. 07 Height/weight

02 (CDI)vs. 03-07 (TCI) Ignition.


Insert Image:

35.72 KB

EDIT---

I found a article on the two... here is a little exerpt from it..
http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html#a7p22

TCI collapses an already charged coil by disconnecting it (TCI switches off briefly). These systems generally use a higher resistance type coil and are known as an "induction" or "Kettering" ignition systems.

CDI sends a brief high (200+) voltage pulse to an uncharged coil which act like a transformer and multiplies it even higher. The step up is normally around 100:1. These systems tend to use low resistance or "racing" oils.

CDI modules normally use low resistance type coils. Remember that CDI is "shooting" a voltage pulse through the coil. TCI (or induction ignitions) use (and expect) higher resistance "induction" type coils. Remember current is flowing through the TCI to the induction coils continuously and the coil is fired when the TCI shuts it off. The importance of this is:

Do Not Use a "racing" -or- low resistance type coil in an "induction" ignition (or TCI) system.
The low resistance coil will flow more current thru the TCI and produce the legendary "Hot Toaster" effect. Though it will work for awhile, you will eventually burn the TCI module out.
------------------------------------------------------------------
[CDI vs. TCI]

The higher output voltage of a CDI module produces a much higher cooresponding coil output voltage . So, CDI produces a much hotter cleaner spark. It is the ignition of choice among race teams and now widely used for everything. The "CD" in CDI means capacitive discharge. This refers to the high voltage output of the CDI module which comes from a "mini" coil circuit of its own. The downside to CDI is the short high voltage spark pulse duration. This is better at high RPM but makes starting difficult. You will notice many CDI ignition systems that use a starting "ballast resistor" type circuit. This circuit ups the spark output in the CDI ignition for starting only. TCI produces a longer spark duration (which some might argue is more reliable).
 

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So which Dyna coil should I use for my 06 Warrior 1.5,3 or 5 ohms resistance?I really like the set up darkstar has on his and would like to do something simular.
 

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quote:Originally posted by Dangunman

So which Dyna coil should I use for my 06 Warrior 1.5,3 or 5 ohms resistance?I really like the set up darkstar has on his and would like to do something simular.


06 stock coil part #'s are the same as the 02 bike so you would use the same ones I am running. Dyna DC2-1
 

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Discussion Starter #9
quote:Originally posted by Churchkey

quote:Originally posted by Dangunman

So which Dyna coil should I use for my 06 Warrior 1.5,3 or 5 ohms resistance?I really like the set up darkstar has on his and would like to do something simular.


06 stock coil part #'s are the same as the 02 bike so you would use the same ones I am running. Dyna DC2-1

I'm not saying your wrong, just trying to figure this out, if they have listed different ignition types, why would the part#'s be the same?
 

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quote:Originally posted by bucky685

quote:Originally posted by Churchkey

quote:Originally posted by Dangunman

So which Dyna coil should I use for my 06 Warrior 1.5,3 or 5 ohms resistance?I really like the set up darkstar has on his and would like to do something simular.


06 stock coil part #'s are the same as the 02 bike so you would use the same ones I am running. Dyna DC2-1

I'm not saying your wrong, just trying to figure this out, if they have listed different ignition types, why would the part#'s be the same?


I really don't know why the part #'s are the same but logic tells me its because Yamaha uses the same coils on the 02 thru 06 models. Then again the parts books could be incorrect.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
That is a destint possiblitiy!!
quote:Originally posted by Churchkey

quote:Originally posted by bucky685

quote:Originally posted by Churchkey

quote:Originally posted by Dangunman

So which Dyna coil should I use for my 06 Warrior 1.5,3 or 5 ohms resistance?I really like the set up darkstar has on his and would like to do something simular.


06 stock coil part #'s are the same as the 02 bike so you would use the same ones I am running. Dyna DC2-1

I'm not saying your wrong, just trying to figure this out, if they have listed different ignition types, why would the part#'s be the same?


I really don't know why the part #'s are the same but logic tells me its because Yamaha uses the same coils on the 02 thru 06 models. Then again the parts books could be incorrect.
 

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TCI & CDI Differences

I’m resurrecting this old thread in response to this new thread About ECU's and to bring clearity to this post and possible closure.

All year Warriors, 2002-2009, share the exact same ignition coils that have a continuous uninterrupted +12 vdc Positive Primary at all times. They are wires Black/Red as shown on the Warrior wiring diagram XV1700P/XV1700PC in the 2002 Yamaha Factory Service Manual.

The coils collapse (create a spark @ the Secondary terminal) via the Primary Negative wires triggered by the ECU @ Pin Terminals 1 & 2, wires Black/Orange & Black/White respectively!

This constitutes the TCI irrefutably …. As the CDI design doesn’t power the coils continuously, but receive a momentary higher voltage pulse from a capacitor that is sent to the coil primaries!

The TCI arrangement is nothing more than a “pointless” coil ignition switched by a transistor IMO.
 

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Supporting info for prior post "TCI & CDI Differences"

Interchangeability of the Speed* ECU for all years
  • Stage IV Performance ECU (Electronic Control Unit) offers an optimized fuel/ignition map to work with higher compression ratio, increased airflow intake and competition exhaust system
    Raises maximum rpm limit to 5500 rpm
    Fits '02-'09 Warrior
Yamaha Parts Fiche
  • 2002 Warrior - ENGINE CONTROL UNIT: 5PX-8591A-01-00 (replaces 5PX-8591A-00-00)
 

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Excellent, when searching on MSSS's Yamaha parts fiche for 2002 Warrior ECU it indicates exactly that:

10 ENGINE CONTROL UNIT
5PX-8591A-01-00 (replaces 5PX-8591A-00-00)

I agree this indicates the part# change is fully compatible, which supports the findings that ECU's with the molded-in number "5PX-01" are found on USA49 and USA-California Warriors. I think we all expect to find the same for Warriors built for Canada and the UK. Good work.

The other ECU conversation: http://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13-technical-discussion/170482-about-ecus.html
 

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If CDI types are generally preferred by race teams why would yamaha have changed to TDI for their "performance cruiser".
 

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I dunno, just a guess. CDI has a capacitor and is considered somewhat more dangerous to service. But also, CDI is great in the higher rpm's due to its shorter spark duration but not so great down low, and maybe worse for cold starts. TCI is the reverse, it has a slightly longer spark duration and since the Warrior tops-out at ~5krpm and lives in the rpm range comfortably covered by TCI, and is safer to service since it doesn't have a capacitor, maybe Yamaha just made a call and went that way. Again I dunno. Yamaha has had TCI available for years.

I gather the one down-side to TCI on a motorcycle like the Warrior is that when you turn the key to 'on' the coils are powered but the bike hasn't started yet. A side effect (apparently due to the design) is the coils fire and a single spark is sent through the spark plugs. Normally its no big deal, but if if it stalled, or it was having a hard-start morning resulting in some go-juice in the jugs, that single spark can sometimes ignite the fuel. But that seems overshadowed by the positives. That's about what I've picked-up as a layman from reading this-and-that for some months.

[added]
Here's one non-Warrior-specific example of a tech site mentioning this, see Par 11.22 at: http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html (near the end). You'll find others I'm sure.

"At key on (or Run/Stop to on), you power up the TCI and coils. The TCI then shuts down since there is no engine rotation. This auto-shutdown is common in all electric ingnition modules. It prevents the ignition from just sitting there powered up if the engine isn't running (which is bad for the transistors).

Since a normal CDI sends a short high voltage pulse to the coil, when it auto-shutsdown... nothing happens. BUT, the TCI is normally grounding both coils. It fires them by momentarily disconnecting the ground. You see where this is going? When the TCI auto-shutsdown, it disconnects both coil grounds. And sure enough, BOTH coils fire one spark out each plug.

Now, this same thing happens if you crank the engine (BUT IT DOESN'T START) and then let go of the starter. Since the engine stops rotating, the TCI shuts off and.... you get a single spark. This explains why you get a DELAYED single misfire/backfire after cranking but get no start. Especially if the battery is low. You have enough juice to crank but not for a good spark. Then you let go and get a GOOD full spark 2 seconds after as the TCI shutsdown. With fuel vapor in the carbs... bang. AND, since you're getting 2 single sparks regardless of where the engine stops... you could get it in a cylinder "valved" open to the exhaust which has fuel vapors in the muffler.... KA-POW!!

Now this is not the same "plug firing" you get IMMEDIATELY after letting go of the starter. In this case, you have managed to catch the timing just right. The powerful ("non-loaded-starter-battery") spark just happens to take place at the correct moment as you let go of the starter."
 

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I dunno, just a guess. CDI has a capacitor and is considered somewhat more dangerous to service. But also, CDI is great in the higher rpm's but not so great down low. TCI is the reverse, and since the Warrior tops-out at ~5krpm and lives in the rpm range comfortably covered by TCI, and is safer to service since it doesn't have a capacitor, maybe Yamaha just made a call and went that way. Again I dunno. I gather the one down-side to TCI on a motorcycle like the Warrior is that when you turn the key to 'on' the coils are powered but the bike hasn't started yet. A side effect (by design or nature I dunno) is the coils fire and a single spark is sent through the spark plugs. Normally is no big deal, but if you stalled and were re-starting, or having a hard-start morning and shut the key off with some go-juice in the jugs, then turn the key back on, that single spark can sometimes ignite the fuel. But its a rare condition, and seems overshadowed by the positives. That's about what I've picked-up as a layman from reading this-and-that for some months.
If CDI types are generally preferred by race teams why would yamaha have changed to TDI for their "performance cruiser".
FWIIW ... TCI is commonly known as Transistorized Coil Ignition which is digital and is used on all the Yamaha cruisers, R1's & R6's Etcetera!.

It is well defined in my contribution above in layman's language. It is pointless digital ignition and the same power up conditions used on automobiles. In days gone by Chevys used a resistor to protect the ignition the condenser was to prevent .... BACK ON TRACK

Some bikes use ignitors which i identify as CDI etc.
 
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