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Dragon claims another?

3.2K views 34 replies 24 participants last post by  oldman  
#1 ·
Just got this thread update email from the Harley forum:
"A guy staying at the same campsite we are lost his dad yesterday on the dragon. Apparently he failed to navigate a turn and ran into the mountain. He was riding an FLHT with an S&S 113" w/ baker 6speed."
 
#8 ·
I have never been there, but one of the comments is something I have been thinking of myself as I get ready for my first Dragon experience, it's a road, not a ride. Some of those comments were about how dangerous the road is. Newbies should not attempt etc. Really? The road is unsafe at the posted speed limit? I find that hard to believe. As long as the brain is engaged before the clutch, no road is dangerous all by itself.
 
#9 ·
If one follows the posted speed limit one will be fine on any road, but on the Dragon the **** bike might fall over if I ride the posted speed limit..... LoL!


It is more about riding within your limited skill level and most importantly knowing your bikes limitations..... end of story.
 
#11 ·
DarkStar said:
If one follows the posted speed limit one will be fine...
That is, one will be fine as long as someone else doesn't cross the double yellow and slam into one's face or come flying up behind them and slam into one's ass. Following the posted speed limit is never a guarantee you'll be fine on this road or any other, but especially on this road. In my opinion.
 
#12 ·
Shag said:
DarkStar said:
If one follows the posted speed limit one will be fine...
That is, one will be fine as long as someone else doesn't cross the double yellow and slam into one's face or come flying up behind them and slam into one's ass. Following the posted speed limit is never a guarantee you'll be fine on this road or any other, but especially on this road. In my opinion.
I was just talking to a friend of mine that lives in Townsend, TN. She was going on about how all the maniacs on the "crotch rockets" would come flying around you in a turn. I have very little tolerence for ignorance. Well, except my own that is. In a cage, I would have half a mind to run them over for acting like that. But I digress
 
#13 ·
NOTE TO SELF: When I finally DO get up there.............caution, slow, careful, and alert will be the fashion for the first couple trips down the Dragon! I mean ****, this guy LEFT the southbound lane, then over corrected to get BACK into his lane, then CRASHED, then was THROWN into the northbound lane. So I could be cruising along safely minding my own business and ****, I get totally violated in my own lane? Second thought, I may not like riding the Dragon after all! There's some NICE, LONG, STRAIGHT, FLAT roads here in Florida that look better and better ever time I read stuff like this! Shoot, I live in Tampa and can **** near see Georgia from my house! All that said, I feel bad for this man, his family, and the poor Emergency Response Professionals that have to respond to these events on a daily basis, fatal or not!
 
#14 ·
Bill Moore said:
Shag said:
DarkStar said:
If one follows the posted speed limit one will be fine...

That is, one will be fine as long as someone else doesn't cross the double yellow and slam into one's face or come flying up behind them and slam into one's ass. Following the posted speed limit is never a guarantee you'll be fine on this road or any other, but especially on this road. In my opinion.

I was just talking to a friend of mine that lives in Townsend, TN. She was going on about how all the maniacs on the "crotch rockets" would come flying around you in a turn. I have very little tolerance for ignorance. Well, except my own that is. In a cage, I would have half a mind to run them over for acting like that. But I digress

I think it is hard for someone who doesn't ride to make a judgment about a pass on that road. I pass on the road all the time because of all the mini hog parades going on. It is not difficult to make a safe pass on that road, youhave to use some judgment.


As for new riders. It is for sure not a place for a new rider. As a new rider NOTHING is second nature. They go into overload very quickly and are apt to ride right off the road. I have seen it happen more than once. Passing a new rider is almost suicide. I came up behind a lady last year and road behind her for about half a mile and decided to pass. When she finally caught a glimpse of me in her mirror she just about threw the bike on the ground. I just pulled over and stopped.


I have yet to hear about a death caused by someone else's pass. 70% of the time people fail to negotiate a turn, go off the road and hit hard objects. It happens to fast and slow riders, hogs and crotch rockets. The rest of the time it's someone loosing it in a corner and crossing in front of an oncoming vehicle. It isn't just one kind of rider or bike. Most have one thing in common. They are from an area of the country where the only time they turn a corner is at a red light. Florida and Michigan are popular places to come from and die at the Gap.
 
#15 ·
The last three times I was up there, I didn't even get on the Dragon, per se'. I rode up to the CROT and had breakfast with everyone else one day during the Return to the Dragon last year and this year during Warrior Fest my front tire was shot so no Dragon for me then or when I went back a few weeks later with the Rockets Across America trip, although I had a new tire mounted. It just has very little allure to me, I don't enjoy scraping my bikes up and I don't consider it a badge of honor if yours is. I ride to relax and I do so in more of a relaxed style and pace, pushing the limits of my bike is not the reason I ride simply because the limits will sometimes push back. If that is the way you want to ride go ahead, I'll see you when I get there or I'll at least wave while you're talking it over with the nice occifer. I think my Dragon days are done.
 
#16 ·
Bill Moore said:
She was going on about how all the maniacs on the "crotch rockets" would come flying around you in a turn. I have very little tolerence for ignorance. Well, except my own that is. In a cage, I would have half a mind to run them over for acting like that. But I digress
You must, along with many other things, watch your mirrors too. If you see someone coming up on you just get over to the right and wave them around. Or if you see, in your mirrors, there are several riders lined up on your tail then get over to the right and just give them a wave to go around. It works better for both riders if you just wave them around. Nothing to prove to anybody-Gotta be fun for everybody.
 
#17 ·
Shag said:
DarkStar said:
If one follows the posted speed limit one will be fine...

That is, one will be fine as long as someone else doesn't cross the double yellow and slam into one's face or come flying up behind them and slam into one's ass. Following the posted speed limit is never a guarantee you'll be fine on this road or any other, but especially on this road. In my opinion.

+1 for sure! I've never been to the Dragon but do know that a lot of riders are killed every year due to another vehicle crossing over the double line in the road. You never know who or what will be coming around a blind turn in the road. Keep your speed down unless you're at the track and especially in blind curves. Even though there are some good riders on this forum who can handle the Dragon, there may be another rider coming from the other direction who can't. The Dragon IS NOT a race track. Be carefull out there!
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#19 ·
CruiseMissile said:
It has been a terrible year for fatalities. Even with the stepped up leo presence. Alot of people need to hone up on their skills or stay the *** away. It's not Disney land. Pay attention to the road and stay in your lane, it's that simple. There is no room for mistakes.
Hey Cruise I plan to be a the fest how about some riding tips for the less skilled riders. I am being serious you are a great rider, a little crazy
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but still a great rider. No shame in my game if you give me a pointer or two I will be eternally grateful.
 
#22 ·
Hey David, With that new BKing you can take the mirrors off
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(We'll see if this gives Btm_Fdr some stink to stir.) I hope I can make the Return...Right now Chestnuts are falling on my head, if they slow down I'll look forward to riding with you guys.
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The C14 is anxious for some more Dragon.
 
#23 ·
CruiseMissile said:
It has been a terrible year for fatalities. Even with the stepped up leo presence. Alot of people need to hone up on their skills or stay the *** away. It's not Disney land. Pay attention to the road and stay in your lane, it's that simple. There is no room for mistakes.
It is sad, but many guys get to showing off for their buddies down there and disregard not only their own safety, but the safety of others. The last time I was there (this year) I overheard one guy telling his buddy about how he used the "whole" road. A gal nearby said that that wasn't something that people there appreciated to which he replied "I don't give a ***." Nice eh.


I've only ridden it sportingly before 9 am for the last several years. Far too many dufus down there these days.

I was kinda hoping cops would let them go wild and kill and maim one another to the point where the few survivors stay home and tell war stories. Only then will become a nice MC destination again. Unfortunately, they will instead attempt to "manage" the problem and prolong it indefinitely.
 
#24 ·
Preacherman said:
Hey Cruise I plan to be a the fest how about some riding tips for the less skilled riders. I am being serious you are a great rider, a little crazy
Image
but still a great rider. No shame in my game if you give me a pointer or two I will be eternally grateful.
Ride at a pace that you are comfortable negotiating the road in your own lane. Don't ride over your head to impress others. If someone comes up behind you, pull over and let them by where it is safe to do so.

Here is one of the more popular, well written, and widely quoted articles on street riding:
The Pace
Separating street
from track, riding from racing
By Nick
Ienatsch











"The Pace", first appearing in the November 1991 issue
of Motorcyclist magazine.
Racing involves speed, concentration and commitment;
the results of a mistake are usually catastrophic because there's little room
for error riding at 100 percent. Performance street riding is less intense and
further from the absolute limit, but because circumstances are less controlled,
mistakes and over aggressiveness can be equally catastrophic. Plenty of
roadracers have sworn off street riding. "Too dangerous, too many variables and
too easy to get carried away with too much speed," track specialists claim.
Adrenaline-addled racers find themselves treating the street like the track, and
not surprisingly, they get burned by the police, the laws of physics and the
cold, harsh realities of an environment not groomed for ten-tenths riding. But
as many of us know, a swift ride down a favorite road may be the finest way to
spend a few free hours with a bike we love. And these few hours are best enjoyed
riding at The Pace.
A year after I joined Motorcyclist staff in
1984, Mitch Boehm was hired. Six months later, The Pace came into being, and we
perfected it during the next few months of road testing and weekend fun rides.
Now The Pace is part of my life - and a part of the Sunday morning riding group
I frequent. The Pace is a street riding technique that not only keeps street
riders alive, but thoroughly entertained as well.
THE PACE
The Pace focuses on bike control
and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute
braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common
single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding. Cornering momentum is the name
of the game, stressing strong, forceful inputs at the handlebar to place the
bike correctly at the entrance of the turn and get it flicked in with little
wasted time and distance. Since the throttle wasn't slammed open at the exit of
the last corner, the next corner doesn't require much, if any, braking. It isn't
uncommon to ride with our group and not see a brake light flash all morning.
If the brakes are required, the front lever gets
squeezed smoothly, quickly and with a good deal of force to set entrance speed
in minimum time. Running in on the brakes is tantamount to running off the road,
a confession that you're pushing too hard and not getting your entrance speed
set early enough because you stayed on the gas too long. Running The Pace
decreases your reliance on the throttle and brakes, the two easiest controls to
abuse, and hones your ability to judge cornering speed, which is the most
thrilling aspect of performance street riding.
YOUR LANE IS YOUR LIMIT
Crossing the
centerline at any time except during a passing maneuver is intolerable, another
sign that you're pushing too hard to keep up. Even when you have a clean line of
sight through a left-hand kink, stay to the right of the centerline. Staying on
the right side of the centerline is much more challenging than simply
straightening every slight corner, and when the whole group is committed to this
intelligent practice, the temptation to cheat is eliminated through peer
pressure and logic. Though street riding shouldn't be described in racing terms,
you can think of your lane as the race track. Leaving your lane is tantamount to
a crash.
Exact bike control has you using every inch of your
lane if the circumstances permit it. In corners with a clear line of sight and
no oncoming traffic, enter at the far outside of the corner, turn the bike
relatively late in the corner to get a late apex at the far inside of your lane
and accelerate out, just brushing the far outside of your lane as your bike
stands up. Steer your bike forcefully but smoothly to minimize the transition
time. Don't hammer it down because the chassis will bobble slightly as it
settles, possibly carrying you off line. Since you haven't charged in on the
brakes, you can get the throttle on early, before the apex, which balances and
settles your bike for the drive out.
More often than not, circumstances do not permit the
full use of your lane from yellow line to white line and back again. Blind
corners, oncoming traffic and gravel on the road are a few criteria that dictate
a more conservative approach, so leave yourself a three or four foot margin for
error, especially at the left side of the lane where errant oncoming traffic
could prove fatal. Simply narrow your entrance on a blind right-harder and move
your apex into your lane three feet on blind left turns in order to stay free of
unseen oncoming traffic hogging the centerline. Because you're running at The
Pace and not flat out, your controlled entrances offer additional time to deal
with unexpected gravel or other debris in your lane; the outside wheel track is
usually the cleanest through a dirty corner since a car weights its outside
tires most, scrubbing more dirt off the pavement in the process, so aim for that
line.
A GOOD LEADER, WILLING FOLLOWERS
The street
is not a racing environment, and it takes humility, self assurance and self
control to keep it that way. The leader sets the pace and monitors his mirrors
for signs of raggedness in the ranks that follow, such as tucking in on
straights, crossing over the yellow line and hanging off the motorcycle in the
corners, If the leader pulls away, he simply slows his straight way speed
slightly but continues to enjoy the corners, thus closing the ranks but missing
none of the fun. The small group of three or four riders I ride with is so
harmonious that the pace is identical no matter who's leading. The lead shifts
occasionally with a quick hand sign, but there's never a pass for the lead with
an ego on the sleeve. Make no mistake, the riding is spirited and quick in the
corners. Anyone with a right arm can hammer down the straights; it's proficiency
in the corners that makes The Pace come alive.
Following distances are relatively lengthy, with the
straightaways taken at more moderate speeds, providing the perfect opportunity
to adjust the gaps. Keeping a good distance serves several purposes, besides
being safer. Rock chips are minimized, and the police or highway patrol won't
suspect a race is in progress. The Pace's style of not hanging off in corners
also reduces the appearance of pushing too hard and adds a degree of maturity
and sensibility in the eyes of the public and the law. There's a definite
challenge to cornering quickly while sitting sedately on your bike.
New rider indoctrination takes some time because The
Pace develops very high cornering speeds and newcomers want to hammer the
throttle on the exits to make up for what they lose at the entrances. Our group
slows drastically when a new rider joins the ranks because our technique of
moderate straightaway speed and no brakes can suck the unaware into a corner too
fast, creating the most common single bike accident. With a new rider learning
The Pace behind you, tap your brake lightly well before the turn to alert him
and make sure he understands there's no pressure to stay with the group.
There's plenty of ongoing communication during The
Pace. A foot off the peg indicates debris in the road, and all slowing or
turning intentions are signaled in advance with the left hand and arm. Turn
signals are used for direction changes and passing, with a wave of the left hand
to thank the cars that move right and make it easy for motorcyclists to get
past. Since you don't have a death grip on the handlebar, your left hand is also
free to wave to oncoming riders, a fading courtesy that we'd like to see return.
If you're getting the idea The Pace is a relaxing, noncompetitive way to ride
with a group, you are right.
RELAX AND FLICK IT
I'd rather spend a Sunday
in the mountains riding at The Pace than a Sunday at the racetrack, it's that
enjoyable. Countersteering is the name of the game; smooth, forceful steering
input at the handlebar relayed to the tires' contact patches through a rigid
sport bike frame. Riding at The Pace is certainly what bike manufacturers had in
mind when sport bikes
Image
evolved to the
street.
But the machine isn't the most important aspect of
running The Pace because you can do it on anything capable of getting through a
corner. Attitude is The Pace's most important aspect: realizing the friend ahead
of you isn't a competitor, respecting his right to lead the group occasionally
and giving him credit for his riding skills. You must have the maturity to limit
your straightaway speeds to allow the group to stay in touch and the sense to
realize that racetrack tactics such as late braking and full throttle runs to
redline will alienate the public and police and possibly introduce you to the
unforgiving laws of gravity. When the group arrives at the destination after
running The Pace, no one feels outgunned or is left with the feeling he must
prove himself on the return run. If you've got some thing to prove, get on a
racetrack.
The racetrack measures your speed with a stop watch
and direct competition, welcoming your aggression and gritty resolve to be the
best. Performance street riding's only yardstick is the amount of enjoyment
gained, not lap times, finishing position or competitors beaten. The differences
are huge but not always remembered by riders who haven't discovered The Pace's
cornering pureness and group involvement. Hammer on the racetrack. Pace yourself
on the street.-MC
 
#25 ·
Good post Bags. The Paceshould be a sticky so it is always easy for folks to find. It's pretty close tothe way I have been ridingsince the early 70s, once I decided to stop tearing up foot pegs.JPWarrior was, I believe, the first to post it on the forum. That was back in 04 or 05. I think we messed up by not making it a sticky or reposting it on a regular basis. It should be mandatory reading as part of the licensing process. Thanks for jogging the memory.
 
#26 ·
RIP fellow rider and condolences to the family and friends. I just returned from my first trip to the Dragon Tuesday and see this news, must've happened shortly after we ran through for the final time before headed home. Our first pass was at night returning from Tenn. and was intimidating at best, but even at night was manageable at proper speeds. The next two days we made several more passes and since I have only been riding for a few years I stayed in the rear of our group and followed the lead. I did go on my own on the last pass and pushed the pace a bit but stayed within what I felt were my limitations and made it out the other side unharmed. It was a wonderful experience (that I hope to enjoy again) and sobering to return to hear this news. I have seen many narrow minded posts regarding this latest fatality regarding the Dragon and can say that just like any other road or location if you stay within your limits and follow the tips you hear and read from others, this is one heck of a fun ride.