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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
[updated on 10-3-09 by ArizonaWarrior]

[Attachments refreshed as pdf file on 4-18-22 by ArizonaWarrior]

SEE NEW PDF INSERTED BELOW.

While messing around with the bike I added a Rhatphlegm-type toggle to switch between ECU-Bump mode and Riding-Mode. The Infamous Infidel Rat discussed his mod here: http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/27511.aspx. The ECU-Bump was developed and documented by original forum members 'back in the day' however I used DFW_Warrior's write-up at http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/48956.aspx in conjunction with Rat's write-up to make this a breeze.


I added a longer black ground wire for extra room to nest the switch under the seat. I also added a nice quality spring-loaded aerospace-type toggle switch safety cover. This cover must be opened to switch into ECU-Bump mode. The cover must be closed to fit the switch back into the underseat wiring nest, and closing the cover resets the switch to riding-mode.


[updated 10-3-09] I swapped to an On-On Heavy Duty Toggle, 20-amp 125VAC, with spade connectors, and I found a thinner screw-on rubber lever cover that works with the safety cover. I wrapped the body of the toggle in self-vulcanizing rubber. Then I soldered-and-crimped the spade connectors and attached #29 wire to the center 'supply' terminal, #27 to the load terminal that is powered when the safety cover is closed, and a black ground wire to the load terminal that is powered when ECU-BUMP mode is selected (which can only be done by opening the cover). I grounded the black wire to the usual gounding screw that lives next to the oil filler tube. Finally, I wrapped the wires carefully, including the sharp edges of the safety cover's mount plate, then I wrapped the switch area a second time using blue electrical identification tape AFTER everything was installed and tested.

For those new to this, if you want to do this mod, its handy to know that the 'wire numbers' are molded into the rim of the ECU plug where the wires enter (you have to look closely in good light at where the wires enter the ecu).

I routed the long ground wire so the switch would lay flat. The pic below is obviously riding-mode with the cover closed and the switch nested in the other items under the sweat. [added: I later removed the blue tape]

Everything fits nicely, and it tested perfect. Thanks to all the friendly forum members for the excellent info!
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
BTW I bought a good quality safety cover for the toggle switch here: http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/index.asp

April2022 Note: This seller no longer has the hot rod quality part that I bought. Use web search criteria something like: 'toggle+cover'








(this shows a SPST On-Off, but I used a SPDT [updated 10-3-09] On-On)
 

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Prof...very nicely done!!.ya clever chappy you...lol...will post pic an arrow of nicks oil mystery...and he's not a novice on the warrior!!!...thanks for coming back to it so quickly...i'll pm ya tonight - cheers tom
 

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Arizona Warrior said:
For addedprotection, I used an On-Off-On SPDT Toggle, which has to go thru the Off position on its way to the selected position. Over time, this will help avoid a worn switch from possibly powering both load wires. I used a #31500 Ace Heavy Duty Toggle, 20-amp 125VAC and attached #29 wire to the center 'supply' contact, #27 to the load contact that is powered when the safety cover is closed, and a black ground wire to the load contact that is powered when ECU-BUMP mode is selected. I grounded theblack wire to the usual goundingscrew that lives next to the oil filler tube. Finally, I wrapped the wires carefully, including the sharp edges of the safety cover's mount plate, then I wrapped the switch area a second time usingblue electrical identification tape.
No disrespect to your efforts here for a fine looking job and interlock devicebut whatyou have done is introduced the possibility of a new undocumented ECU adjustment by using a 3-position switch.

[*]The center position eliminates the ECU loop between 27 & 29 completely

[*]What can happen will happen is my motto...[/list][/list]


Secondly, your justificationand explanationfor using the 3-position switch, as hi-lighted above,is not correct at all IMHO. The Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT) switchwill always fail in one of the detended positions which would be theCOMMON terminal (wire 29) to either GRND or #27 which are the switched terminals. The physical properties and failure rates of a 2 & 3-position switch for this application are the same!

[*]The only way the 2-switched terminals could have continuity to each otheris if they were crushed in a compactor[/list]


My .02here, is to use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDTswitchand focus on using a sealed moisture resistantdevice as there isn't an electricalload problem to be concerned about
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
[*]
Thanks for the heads-up. I bought one of each, I'll swap to the On-On if you still believe it makes sense.
[*]
Would you have an educated guess as to what happens if, at idle in the driveway, I flip the switch?
[*]
[added] Wouldn't an On-Onpass thru an Off condition anyway as one contact breaks and the plate is clear of both contacts?[/list]


It seems like a lot of products that used to be no-brainers are nowcheaply built, and the manufacturer can't spell the word quality. I looked for switches that appeared and felt well made, but I didn't want my ecu's conditionto rely on onlythe appearance of quality.In the past I've seen well-worn toggles get sloppy internally, probably I should not have been so concerned since this toggle will not be used very often and should last a lifetime.My primary concern was keeping the switch from acting due to wire pressure (or whatever) while riding (what can go wrong will go wrong), and the purpose of the good quality aerospace-type safety cover is to keep 27 and 29 connected while riding.I did not consider the off position a hazard since I would be the only person operating the switch, and there's no reason to switch when the bike is running since the bike must be stopped to bump. Maybe that is short sighted looking ten years into the future, I don't know.


[added]





AlanH said:
No disrespect to your efforts here for a fine looking job and interlock devicebut whatyou have done is introduced the possibility of a new undocumented ECU adjustment by using a 3-position switch.

[*]The center position eliminates the ECU loop between 27 & 29 completely

[*]What can happen will happen is my motto...[/list][/list]


My .02here, is to use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDTswitchand focus on using a sealed moisture resistantdevice as there isn't an electricalload problem to be concerned about
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cool.This is good news. It sounds like it couldhave gone the other way. I didn't get time today to test it, now I dont need to!!


Rhatphlegm said:
I've ridden mine with the switch flipped before (Accidentally). It didn't harm anything...


FYI
 

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ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

Arizona Warrior said:
[*]
Thanks for the heads-up. I bought one of each, I'll swap to the On-On if you still believe it makes sense.
[*]
Would you have an educated guess as to what happens if, at idle in the driveway, I flip the switch?
[*]
[added] Wouldn't an On-Onpass thru an Off condition anyway as one contact breaks and the plate is clear of both contacts?[/list]


It seems like a lot of products that used to be no-brainers are nowcheaply built, and the manufacturer can't spell the word quality. I looked for switches that appeared and felt well made, but I didn't want my ecu's conditionto rely on onlythe appearance of quality.In the past I've seen well-worn toggles get sloppy internally, probably I should not have been so concerned since this toggle will not be used very often and should last a lifetime.My primary concern was keeping the switch from acting due to wire pressure (or whatever) while riding (what can go wrong will go wrong), and the purpose of the good quality aerospace-type safety cover is to keep 27 and 29 connected while riding.I did not consider the off position a hazard since I would be the only person operating the switch, and there's no reason to switch when the bike is running since the bike must be stopped to bump. Maybe that is short sighted looking ten years into the future, I don't know.



Arizona Warrior .... Like Yamaha says;
"We build it. You make it your own"


All you others planning to do this use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDTswitchand focus on using a sealed moisture resistantdevice with solder terminalsas there isn't an electricalload problem to be concerned about
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

[updated 10-3-09 by ArizonaWarrior: I found a thin rubber boot that works with the safety cover]


Atoggle labeled'moisture resistant'is a good idea. But if it uses a rubber boot over the switch lever then the safety cover won't fit, andI chose to go that direction. I'll look again after tuning is completed (which is now delayed to get the front brakes fixed), and whenIcan find a toggle labeled 'moisture resistant' that works with a safety coverI will slap one in.I didn't find one locally, so while installing theswitchI took time to pre-form and tin the wire ends, place them around the screw terminals, then momentarily heat themto melt the solder to the screw fastenings, then I wrapped the screws and wires, then the body,in plenty of good electrical tape. Only the top where the lever entersthe switch bodyhas a potential for moisture access, or possiblyit has a seal there too, I don't know.


I got an answer on the question about 'on-on versus on-off-on' from another source. Both pass through an 'off condition' so both have the same incomplete-circuit potential if the switch is actuated when the bike is running.Rat's"field test report" (lol) seems to remove the worry. I hadn't considered that possibility and I'm glad it works out to be a non-issue in this case. What it means is I didn't need to buy on-off-on because even the on-on breaks before makes. It seems likely most/all toggles do, so I learned something else! It also means that both on-on and on-off-on act the same in this application. One is as good as the other but, again,water resistant would be less maintenance over time [added 10-3-09: and the On-On switch issimply a better idea].


We are working on yards and chores and hopefully finishing up thefront brakes today. Maybe I can get a little riding in!


This topic turned-out to have a lot more to it than anticipated. Thanks!
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

Arizona Warrior said:
I got an answer on the question about 'on-on versus on-off-on' from another source. Both pass through an 'off condition' so both have the same incomplete-circuit potential if the switch is actuated when the bike is running.Rat's"field test report" (lol) seems to remove the worry. I hadn't considered that possibility and I'm glad it works out to be a non-issue in this case. What it means is I didn't need to buy on-off-on because even the on-on breaks before makes. It seems likely most/all toggles do, so I learned something else! It also means that both on-on and on-off-on act the same in this application.

I'm saddened to see that you don't understand my 1st response on this subject which i thought was quite clear and concise


[*]The center position eliminates the ECU loop between 27 & 29 completely

[*]What can happen will happen is my motto... [/list][/list]


Why don't you be the Pioneer on this new ECU adjust by putting the toggle switch in the center OFF position turn your ignition key-ON and try to enter into the diagnostic mode to make the adjustment


After that turn your key-OFF and put the toggle switch into the run postion and take a joy ride .... then report back to us your results



Rat's field test report is meaningless and not at all what is described above



Secondly, your original justification and explanationto use the 3-position switch over Rhatphlegm's2-pos swis absolutely incorrect and unfounded and that you can take to the Bank


[*]For added protection, I used an On-Off-On SPDT Toggle, which has to go thru the Off position on its way to the selected position. Over time, this will help avoid a worn switch from possibly powering both load wires[/list]


Until you report back here to all of us i suggest the following:

[*]Anyoneplanning to do this use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDT switch and focus on using a sealed moisture resistant device with solder terminals as there isn't an electrical load problem to be concerned about.[/list]
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

LOL snide remarks will get you nowhere - you crack me up!



I posted my future intentions earlier.Since the On-Off-On is already installed, it'll stay there for now. Chiding won't make me change the switch any faster.


Before I learned elsewherethattoggles are understood to be break-before-make unless labeled otherwise, I bought both an On-On and an On-Off-On (as stated earlier) and decided to use the On-Off-On. Moisture resistant was not available locally. Obviously since the On-On actually does break-before-make, it turns out it will workfine. But no matter which toggle, I'm stillmore worried about the toggle switch somehow getting 'switched' over the years under the seat- and less worried about entering DIAG with the switch in the Off position.It doesn't seem a problem so the swap can wait.


Here are the possible circuit cases I considered before buying a switch:


Case 1 Riding Mode, 27 and 29 are connected as from factory.


Case 2 Bump Mode, 29 and Ground are connected for bumping theecu.


Case 3 moving the switch to theOffposition:

[*]
disconnecting 27 has noeffectbecause 27 is alsodisconnected in Bump Mode.
[*]
disconnectingthe Ground wire has no effect since then itsnot part of a circuit.
[*]
disconnecting 29 interrupts the signaland may cause an error code, but there is noshort circuit.

[*]
if anyone hassome insight to share on this case, I hope you'll share it so we all learn.[/list][/list]


There doesn't seem to be a 'case' where a disconnected circuit would create a problem so I asked a couple of questions that were ignored. I've said this before and I'll say it again,lots of usask questions to learn as much as we can. Then we make our own decisions. Lots of uspost our work in case it could be helpful and because we value faircritique. Wehope there's onlygood-natured ribbing in the mix if something was overlooked.But even with the maybe-or-maybe-not-good-natured-ribbing I've learned some things, and I have a cool switch that keeps 27 and 29 connected while riding, covering what I decided ismost important to me based on what I learned.It's a win-win, thanks!



AlanH said:
Arizona Warrior .... Like Yamaha says;
"We build it. You make it your own"



All you others planning to do this use a 2-position detended ON-ON SPDTswitchand focus on using a sealed moisture resistantdevice with solder terminalsas there isn't an electricalload problem to be concerned about




Arizona Warrior said:
[*]
Thanks for the heads-up. I bought one of each, I'll swap to the On-On if you still believe it makes sense.
[*]
Would you have an educated guess as to what happens if, at idle in the driveway, I flip the switch?
[*]
[added] Wouldn't an On-Onpass thru an Off condition anyway as one contact breaks and the plate is clear of both contacts?[/list]


It seems like a lot of products that used to be no-brainers are nowcheaply built, and the manufacturer can't spell the word quality. I looked for switches that appeared and felt well made, but I didn't want my ecu's conditionto rely on onlythe appearance of quality.In the past I've seen well-worn toggles get sloppy internally, probably I should not have been so concerned since this toggle will not be used very often and should last a lifetime.My primary concern was keeping the switch from acting due to wire pressure (or whatever) while riding (what can go wrong will go wrong), and the purpose of the good quality aerospace-type safety cover is to keep 27 and 29 connected while riding.I did not consider the off position a hazard since I would be the only person operating the switch, and there's no reason to switch when the bike is running since the bike must be stopped to bump. Maybe that is short sighted looking ten years into the future, I don't know.
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

...nice summary prof...me and gav had along long chat yesterday...and this thread came into the mix...we decided we love ya thinking..and the way you guys go for the next step...it's the pioneering spirit that took your forefathers acrossunknown problems to survive...[hats off]....we [as in us 2] back here in blighty have chosen the straight forward earth wire connection route and then put it all back as it was...[phew]...i've enjoyed the chuckle from this thread and learnt things..
[*]


funnily enough this very subject has come up in the euro forum...and yourefforts havehelped to take that thread along pretty quick...you guys and the forum are the warrior riders best best asset...'longmay our friendshiplive'..as yoda would say...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

What a nice thing to say brother, thanks!


tomba said:
...nice summary prof...me and gav had along long chat yesterday...and this thread came into the mix...we decided we love ya thinking..and the way you guys go for the next step...it's the pioneering spirit that took your forefathers acrossunknown problems to survive...[hats off]....we [as in us 2] back here in blighty have chosen the straight forward earth wire connection route and then put it all back as it was...[phew]...i've enjoyed the chuckle from this thread and learnt things..

[*]





funnily enough this very subject has come up in the euro forum...and yourefforts havehelped to take that thread along pretty quick...you guys and the forum are the warrior riders best best asset...'longmay our friendshiplive'..as yoda would say...
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

whilst waiting for a guru to 'ride over the hill'...a 'bump' really then...but we've been chatting and it seems we think [don't ya love the royal 'we']...the ecu should be set at the best 'stock settings' ie -the header pipe chrome isn't turning another colour and the plugs arethe perfect tan colour...and then the pc3 picks up on those settings...so it's not advised to fiddle with the ecu to say 'zero' it before fitting the PC...if that helps at all - so you might want to try the ecu bump...27/29 wire cut to see the stock settings and move the mixture to suit the pipes and plugs - cheers tom



people are also going the PC5 route slowly.. it seems to make sense for the future and iniitial thoughts are it will retro to the earlier warriors - smaller and takes 5 mintues to install - this is my investigation work, i don't have a PC as yet
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

The ECU houses the factory fuel map. The values in the factory map equate to the amount of time the injector is energized (spraying fuel). The PC3 reads the factory fuel map values and applies the values you have entered inthe PC3fuel map, which can be thought of as percentage values. A negative value in the PC3 map reduces the energized time (leaner) and a positive value increases energized time (richer). The PC3 can't do its job without the ECU's fuel map.


Thelikely exception to this might be the ECU-Bump values CO1 and CO2 which mightaffect idle only or might affectthe entire rpm range (there are two camps with equally valid but vastly different experiences).


In either case, the answer to your question is yes, the ECU has effect even after a PC3/PC5 install. Hope this helps.


jimsnorton said:
A quick question here, I know I'm in late, but here goes anyway.


Does the ECU have any effect after a PClll is installed?
 
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