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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

If I were starting out today, I would go to the PC5 no doubt. It's smaller for sure, leaving a hint more space under the seat. And even though it has features the Warrior can't use, its very likely the tools will soon become available to use most of its features. For example, smaller-sizedoxygen sensors to fit both header pipes and feed data for the auto-tune feature for both cylinders separately might be just around the corner. The current oxygen sensors seem too big to hide. My understanding is the PC5 will work equally well on all years of the Warrior even though the 2002 model uses a slightly different ignition system. Several members have recently installed the PC5 on various model year bikes, try a search for "PCV" or "PC5".


tomba said:
people are also going the PC5 route slowly.. it seems to make sense for the future and iniitial thoughts are it will retro to the earlier warriors - smaller and takes 5 mintues to install - this is my investigation work, i don't have a PC as yet
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

Thanx, AZ Warrior, I somehow knew you'd chime in here. Do you have time for another question? I had installed the ECU mod w/switch some time prior to getting my PClll, and had tweaked it a few times. My readings were something like 21 - 19 when I first started to play with it, & even tho I had made changes, none of which were drastic, I never went back & changed anything after my "perfect PClll install". After the PClll was installed, I had it dynoed & went on about my business, and probably 30K+ miles later my bike is still as strong as it ever was. I now have in excess of 78k miles on it. I had the PClll tweaked last year to eliminate most of my backfire issues, which worked. The guy who did my map told me he had learned more about our Warrior in the two years after I had my original map done, and he put my PClll back on the 'puter, and added fuel at the closed throttle positions & that pretty much cleared my backfire issues of the time. Now, however I'm experencing more backfiring, at different times. In fact it's becoming somewhat perminent. The backfires arent really loud just 'pops', but they are fairly consistent. Sometimes when cracking the throttle, and sometimes closing it.I have a CA model, and have your BAK & AIS blockoff, & propipe w/comp baffle & chrome end cap. Now the question... Do you think any of the CA ad-ons may be causing these new backfire issues? I've never had my bike to the shop since my initial check-up @ 12K miles when I took delivery. Sorry for being so long winded.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

The California charcoal cannister and hoses came off with your -AIS and BAK install, right? I believe that's the only Cali-adder on the Warrior is that right?


When you are riding it they way its made to be ridden (hard and fast) these big cube V2's have some bits of backfiring in about the spots you mention. Its doubtful your dynotuned custom map has changed on its own accord, its more likely change of seasons, colder more dense air, those sorts of things. If mine didn't pop a little on hard decel or throttle blip-blip-blip I'd worry!


Still, if you suspect last year's tweakon thedynotuner produced a less effectivemap,maybe save the new map to disk then load the priormap awhile and see what you think?


jimsnorton said:
Now, however I'm experencing more backfiring, at different times. In fact it's becoming somewhat perminent. The backfires arent really loud just 'pops', but they are fairly consistent. Sometimes when cracking the throttle, and sometimes closing it.


Now the question... Do you think any of the CA ad-ons may be causing these new backfire issues?
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

A 20a on-on switch is fine. The slightly larger wirecouldn't affect resistance much. Either the switch is wired wrong, or the ground wire isn't cleanly grounded, or the bump procedure isn't being followed correctly?


gillthadevildog said:
i tried this with a 20amp switch and a short thick guage wire for ground and there was too much resistance to allow the bump. what did i do wrong?
.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

What wire did you put in the middle contact of the switch, #27 or #29 (should be #29) and did you visually re-verifyat the ECU plug end that its wire #29?


You already know that when the toggle bat is switched to the 'north' the 'south' contact is energized, so that can't be it. If you have #29 on the center terminal, then it just sounds like you have the #27 wire and the ground wire reversed is all.
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

You know I didn't remove the charcoal cannister, and there are times that I find myself near that little rectangular black box, & smell heavy doses of raw gas. I guess I missed that part of the BAK - AIS install that removed that guy. Can you give me a quick uninstall for that thing? I can go and find my paperwork for the whole job, but if it's really simple & you can give me directions I'd take them. I have 79K miles on it & the bike is feeling a little rough when riding sanely, ie. easy starts, easy accelerations up to speed, not slamming gears. I don't want to find myself damaging anything at this stage in my life, so I take it easier than when I first got it. It's all still stock except for the mods, and I love the dependibility. I want it to keep up, keeping up.
On the ECU tweaks, does it make sense to you, for me to go into my ECU & tweak it so I "load" the C01 & C02 adjustments with more fuel? In your opinion, which I trust, would this give more head room for the PC3 to have a little more finite metering control? BTW fuel consumption is normal, 33mpg in the worst I can recall, while an occasional 55 - 60mpg on some long down hill excursions, like returning to the Bay Area from Reno where there is a long down hill section where we all get great mileage. Typical day to day mileage is 37 - 42 commuting, 30+ miles RT...
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

by all means do the 27/29 ecu wire mod...so simple and follow the info to get to the stock mixture settings.....good tolnow before mucking about with the settings....as AzW notes...please post the results...when you have them...be interesting to know what the latest set of stock settings are ...we are trying to collect as many as poss for the records...cheers tom
...a guru should be along to say more about the ecu in relation to the PC3 settings...all my info is hearsay...lol
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

Tomba, Thx for pitching in here. Long ago, prior to installing my PC3, I did the ECU mod w/switch. I tweaked it a few times before I got my PC3, but my "original" settings were in the neighborhood of 19, 21, I don't remamber exactly, nor do I remember to which cyl the numbers go to. My question stems around how the pc3 works it's magic. That's why I asked if it would be of any help if I went into my ECU & added some fuel so the PC3 had more to work with. I would still like to know if there is any validity to performing that tweak. I had tweaked the ECU when I installed the BAK & again when I installed my V&H ProPipe. Once I got the PC3, I loaded a MAP I acquired off this 4m. I have since been to the Dyno, & have had one, off the dyno, tweak by the tech that did my original MAP.You're up to date... - Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

I bought mine in Arizona, so I didn't need to toss the charcoal box.


As I recall,you unboltand remove the cannister, and you are left with a hose from the fuel tank (that you keep), and a hose from the cannister to the venturi base. You should have cap-nippled the venturi vacuum port when you did the -AIS. If yes, thenthe cannister hose is unattached and should no longerbe sucking vacuum, and that might be the reason for the gas smell.


I'm admittedly very weak with the charcoal cannister removal, so you should check your paperwork from back then, but from memory (argh!) this is correct.


jimsnorton said:
You know I didn't remove the charcoal cannister, and there are times that I find myself near that little rectangular black box, & smell heavy doses of raw gas. I guess I missed that part of the BAK - AIS install that removed that guy. Can you give me a quick uninstall for that thing? I can go and find my paperwork for the whole job, but if it's really simple & you can give me directions I'd take them.




You should minimize ECU bumps and keep them small and well-documented so you can back out of them. You don't want to make the bump rich just so you can lean it out with the PC3. Let them work in concert with each other. When you bump, you need to verify conditions by pulling a spark plug from each jug and 'reading' it to determine if its too rich, or too lean. When the plugs 'read' correctly (see the Popular Mods post for links to a few good plug-reading-charts) then you should leave your ECU bump where it is and document its a good setting.


Sometimes a dynotuner will want to set the CO1 and CO2 to zero just because. There's no mechanical reason, some just do it because. Once your bike is dynotuned you won't want to play with the ecu bump anymore, it'll just mess up a good tune.


jimsnorton said:
On the ECU tweaks, does it make sense to you, for me to go into my ECU & tweak it so I "load" the C01 & C02 adjustments with more fuel? In your opinion, which I trust, would this give more head room for the PC3 to have a little more finite metering control?




Yep your mileage is about like the rest of us!


jimsnorton said:
BTW fuel consumption is normal, 33mpg in the worst I can recall, while an occasional 55 - 60mpg on some long down hill excursions, like returning to the Bay Area from Reno where there is a long down hill section where we all get great mileage. Typical day to day mileage is 37 - 42 commuting, 30+ miles RT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

The PC3 adds-to or subtracts-from the amount of fuel the Yamaha ECU Fuel Map says to inject. More accurately, the Yamaha ECU Fuel Map tells the injectors to energize (spray fuel) for an amount of time. The PC3 modifies this time. A negative number lessens injector on-time (leaner). A positive number increases injector on-time (richer).


The method by which the ECU parameters CO1 and CO2 interact with the Yamaha ECU Fuel map are unpublished, and I won't get into that because there's plenty of ink on the subject. Specifically, look near the bottom of the first section in thePopular Mods post for a paragraph about ECU Bumps. That is the best paragraph I can write to fairly describe the middle-ground between the two camps of thought. Both side have valid points and its too much to get into, so I won't here.


If helpful, see the link to the Popular Mods post in my signature area below.


[see also below]


jimsnorton said:
My question stems around how the pc3 works it's magic. [see above]


I have since been to the Dyno, & have had one, off the dyno, tweak by the tech that did my original MAP. [ECU bumps after a dynotune are counter-productive, just 'read' your spark plugs and you'll know if the tuner did good work]
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

Hi there Doc! Yes, great advise to post CO1 and CO2 numbers, I'm still keeping mine in my Gallery, just bumped a little leaner today since I still haven't been up the (rainy and snowy) mountain to the tuner yet hehe. Its running pretty good with the changes this year, but the old dynotune isn't valid anymore
. Once its re-dynotuned, I won't fiddle with the bump anymore. It would be a waste of good tuning money, and cut into my beer budget! Its sorta too bad he doesn't have the original numbers, but its always good to record what-ever is there, we've all gotta start someplace. Who knows when it'll be handy.


tomba said:
by all means do the 27/29 ecu wire mod...so simple and follow the info to get to the stock mixture settings.....good tolnow before mucking about with the settings....as AzW notes...please post the results...when you have them...be interesting to know what the latest set of stock settings are ...we are trying to collect as many as poss for the records...cheers tom
...a guru should be along to say more about the ecu in relation to the PC3 settings...all my info is hearsay...lol
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

Yo - it seems to me now that stock ECU settings should be somewhere between zero and minus 7... max... with the one or max 2 units difference between front and back jugs...figures over zero plus 5 to 10 seem to work for guys with modded exhausts and filters etc...but way over +10...hmmm..seems to rich and no cooling from the mixture either...only plug checking would confirm that of course....very time consuming...but would be good to have details posted....i'm sorry to see original stock settings going awol..but if the beasts back to stock at any time, then i'm with anywhere around -1 to -7 with front jug 1 or 2 increments towards plus from the rear reading - cheers prof
 

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Re: ECU Adjust via Toggle Switch

jimsnorton .... neither the BAK or AIS install & modifications have any relevance or effect to the California only canister so you didn't miss anything in the instructions



Here's a thread that discusses the subject in detail: Canister Removal Done Correctly


If you’re interested in cleaning up the hoses read further down the page to here: http://rswarrior.com/forums/p/123630/988274.aspx#988274


jimsnorton said:
You know I didn't remove the charcoal cannister, and there are times that I find myself near that little rectangular black box, & smell heavy doses of raw gas. I guess I missed that part of the BAK - AIS install that removed that guy. Can you give me a quick uninstall for that thing? I can go and find my paperwork for the whole job, but if it's really simple & you can give me directions I'd take them. I have 79K miles on it & the bike is feeling a little rough when riding sanely, ie. easy starts, easy accelerations up to speed, not slamming gears. I don't want to find myself damaging anything at this stage in my life, so I take it easier than when I first got it. It's all still stock except for the mods, and I love the dependibility. I want it to keep up, keeping up.
 

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[updated 10-3-09 by ArizonaWarrior]


While messing around with the bike I added a Rhatphlegm-type toggle to switch between ECU-Bump mode and Riding-Mode. The Infamous Infidel Rat discussed his mod here: http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/27511.aspx. The ECU-Bump was developed and documented by original forum members 'back in the day' however I used DFW_Warrior's write-up at http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/48956.aspx in conjunction with Rat's write-up to make this a breeze.


I added a longer black ground wire for extra room to nest the switch under the seat. I also added a nice quality spring-loaded aerospace-type toggle switch safety cover. This cover must be opened to switch into ECU-Bump mode. The cover must be closed to fit the switch back into the underseat wiring nest, and closing the cover resets the switch to riding-mode.


[updated 10-3-09] I swapped to an On-On Heavy Duty Toggle, 20-amp 125VAC, with spade connectors, and I found a thinner screw-on rubber lever cover that works with the safety cover. I wrapped the body of the toggle in self-vulcanizing rubber. Then I soldered-and-crimped the spade connectors and attached #29 wire to the center 'supply' terminal, #27 to the load terminal that is powered when the safety cover is closed, and a black ground wire to the load terminal that is powered when ECU-BUMP mode is selected (which can only be done by opening the cover). I grounded the black wire to the usual gounding screw that lives next to the oil filler tube. Finally, I wrapped the wires carefully, including the sharp edges of the safety cover's mount plate, then I wrapped the switch area a second time using blue electrical identification tape AFTER everything was installed and tested.

For those new to this, if you want to do this mod, its handy to know that the 'wire numbers' are molded into the rim of the ECU plug where the wires enter (you have to look closely in good light at where the wires enter the ecu).

I routed the long ground wire so the switch would lay flat. The pic below is obviously riding-mode with the cover closed and the switch nested in the other items under the sweat. [added: I later removed the blue tape]

Everything fits nicely, and it tested perfect. Thanks to all the friendly forum members for the excellent info!


I know this is an old thread, but it gives some good info on doing the 27-29 wire mod for ECU bump using a SPDT ON-ON switch. I just got my switch on order and will (hopefully) be doing my mod this weekend. Since doing my Ivan's flash, it feels like at least my rear jug is lean. I'll pull my plugs this weekend too to verify and then start bumping away. I'll post up my progress later.

I'm really bummed all the pics are gone, but I did check out @arizonawarrior's media and saw the one, guarded switch nestled down in the wire nest.
 
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