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Discussion Starter #41
quote:Originally posted by jgreen53

Some day I would like to put a 280 kit on with chrome rims and powder coated swing arm. I guess it does not matter the vender, G&S or Perfomance Edge.


some day?!? Sorry, not sure I understand - do you want in on this group buy or not?
 

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This is a planned winter mod anyway, so I may be interested. I'm going with a 260 Midnight (minus the red stripe), powder coated swing arm, rear cal. mod. G&S or P.E. It'll be interesting to find out about the vendor's capacity/turnaround time with something like this. Is it possible we'll split vendors if there's enough interest?
 

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Discussion Starter #44
quote:Originally posted by dram06war

This is a planned winter mod anyway, so I may be interested. I'm going with a 260 Midnight (minus the red stripe), powder coated swing arm, rear cal. mod. G&S or P.E. It'll be interesting to find out about the vendor's capacity/turnaround time with something like this. Is it possible we'll split vendors if there's enough interest?


anything is possible but let me finish talking w/ the vendors before we talk about that stuff so we don't compromise the negotiations...

consider yourself added to the GP list.
 

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I'm for a discount as much as the next guy, but I'd like to just
throw in my .02 on this topic. I can imagine the vendors not being
too happy giving a discount on custom fabrication work. Usually, when
a vendor offers a group discount it would be an item that they can
purchase from a manufacturer at a large purchase discount themselves
and they can just pass the discount onto the customer. When it comes
to custom fab, they are spending the same time and material to
create your wide tire kit no matter how many kits they produce. I know
it seems that if we promise them alot of kits, they should be happy
to make more money, right? But what is turn around time going to be?
I'm sure this will be overwhelming for each one and there will be
delays with some of the kits. I just hope everyone understands
that and will be fair to all the vendors. Again, thats just my .02
 

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quote:Originally posted by vector18

I'm for a discount as much as the next guy, but I'd like to just
throw in my .02 on this topic. I can imagine the vendors not being
too happy giving a discount on custom fabrication work. Usually, when
a vendor offers a group discount it would be an item that they can
purchase from a manufacturer at a large purchase discount themselves
and they can just pass the discount onto the customer. When it comes
to custom fab, they are spending the same time and material to
create your wide tire kit no matter how many kits they produce. I know
it seems that if we promise them alot of kits, they should be happy
to make more money, right? But what is turn around time going to be?
I'm sure this will be overwhelming for each one and there will be
delays with some of the kits. I just hope everyone understands
that and will be fair to all the vendors. Again, thats just my .02


It will be interesting to see what the turn around time is going to be.... I could be wrong, but I would think it takes a while for them to make one of these custom swingarms.

Dave
 

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quote:Originally posted by vector18

I'm for a discount as much as the next guy, but I'd like to just
throw in my .02 on this topic. I can imagine the vendors not being
too happy giving a discount on custom fabrication work. Usually, when
a vendor offers a group discount it would be an item that they can
purchase from a manufacturer at a large purchase discount themselves
and they can just pass the discount onto the customer. When it comes
to custom fab, they are spending the same time and material to
create your wide tire kit no matter how many kits they produce. I know
it seems that if we promise them alot of kits, they should be happy
to make more money, right? But what is turn around time going to be?
I'm sure this will be overwhelming for each one and there will be
delays with some of the kits. I just hope everyone understands
that and will be fair to all the vendors. Again, thats just my .02


Good point ther, Gregg! Especially on the turnaround time!

I was thinking about this too.... How easy(I mean hard) would it be be for them to process so many different orders at the same time?!

Then again - what business wouldn't be happy to get such a big order?! But it would be probably easier for them if everyone ordered just one type/size of product... lets say if everyone ordered just a 240 stock finish wheel with p/c 260 swngarm...


P.S. btw, thatnks again for the pictures, Gregg! [/emoticons/emotion-2.gif]
 

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Discussion Starter #50
quote:Originally posted by vladens

quote:Originally posted by vector18

I'm for a discount as much as the next guy, but I'd like to just
throw in my .02 on this topic. I can imagine the vendors not being
too happy giving a discount on custom fabrication work. Usually, when
a vendor offers a group discount it would be an item that they can
purchase from a manufacturer at a large purchase discount themselves
and they can just pass the discount onto the customer. When it comes
to custom fab, they are spending the same time and material to

create your wide tire kit no matter how many kits they produce. I know
it seems that if we promise them alot of kits, they should be happy
to make more money, right? But what is turn around time going to be?
I'm sure this will be overwhelming for each one and there will be
delays with some of the kits. I just hope everyone understands
that and will be fair to all the vendors. Again, thats just my .02


Good point ther, Gregg! Especially on the turnaround time!

I was thinking about this too.... How easy(I mean hard) would it be be for them to process so many different orders at the same time?!

Then again - what business wouldn't be happy to get such a big order?! But it would be probably easier for them if everyone ordered just one type/size of product... lets say if everyone ordered just a 240 stock finish wheel with p/c 260 swngarm...


P.S. btw, thatnks again for the pictures, Gregg! [/emoticons/emotion-2.gif]




Hey guys, I appreciate the concerns, but you gotta stay positive. You understand the vendors are also watching this thread right? Or is that the reason for your posts?[/emoticons/emotion-5.gif]

Anyone who wants to lend me a helping hand step right up, I would most certainly appreciate it. [/emoticons/emotion-2.gif]

I suppose my most recent post prior to this one was ignored huh?

All I can say right now is that I've already considered the ?'s you posed here, and you have to remain patient and give me some basic level of trust to get some momentum on this. I have reached out to some members for advice and perspective and making sure I see many aspects as I can.

I will say it again - I don't want to go too much into the details right now as I said before in my earlier post. Got a concern? I'd appreciate the heads up via PM or email. But don't poo-poo this before you even give it a chance.

Though I understand your point Gregg, I respectfully disagree. Limitations of discounts on custom work is what they will be, as determined by the vendor themselves. Regardless of margin for whatever reason custom or whatever, this represents business to the vendors. Custom or not, it's a revenue opportunity. Any vendor who gives me this BS about not being able to give 25 people a group buy discount I would say thanx for your time and move on. I am sure the next vendor will appreciate the business and work with us to make it a win-win situation. You can't make a comparison to off the shelf stuff as you pointed out, but if the vendors want our business I would hope they are willing to work with me. They are free to mark up their custom work as much as they want considering the value of their time and effort they feel is fair. All they need to remember is that this is a competitive bid situation and their competitors are working as hard if not harder to give us the best price given the same conditions as well.
I have talked to many members who have already talked to these vendors on their own deals. All I can say is that if the vendor wants the business, it's only reasonable for us to expect a greater discount than what they have already or previously quoted an individual...yeah, I'm aware of the discounts already given to some folks....

So how about we let's first worry about getting the right discount shall we?
Turn around time, logistics, etc. though important can be worked out if they really want the business. If the folks on the list are uncomfortable about the deal, they can always pull out before making a commitment. They have lost nothing.

If this deal becomes reality then everybody wins. If it doesn't turn out, let it not be so because we poo-pooed it by making the volume/turn-around so seemingly unmanageable (which is so untrue) before we even gave it a chance....raising doubts and concerns to members/vendors is the backlash that I am concerned about, making them potentially loose interest even if there is no basis and even if I tell you I have a plan to address the concerns...

As for the vendors - In order to get in the door, we need to find the price attractive before we even spend the time and effort on how. So pls don't give me a discount you give to any one person who walks in your door.

As for the hows - Do I know all the hows? Nope. All I can say is that I have an idea and will work with the vendors to solidify it. I'm not gonna ask impossible things of the vendors, nor shall the vendors expect ridiculous things of me. Where there is a will, there is a way.

I understand the curiosity about logistics, but give me a chance to work some things out first.
By posing these "but how" or doubtful questions here, I feel compelled to respond to put the people who are willing to be a part of this at ease. And in this process, by making my plans public before I even get a chance to discuss and get agreement from the vendors we run the risk of compromising my plan or my ability to negotiate.

Once I get a handle on the basic stuff, rest assured I will update everyone.

As for turn around time and logistics, why don't we see who wants to play and really wants the business first? I would only want to work with the vendors who want my business anyways. Those members and/or vendors who negative about this from the start are free to withdraw and probably is best that way to begin with.

I have already talked to several of the vendors and they all have great questions about logistics. I would rather spend the time on getting us all a good price first.
Let's pls keep this thread to folks who either want to be part of the Group Buy or those who changed their minds. If you have questions, doubts you can email, PM, or call me. I don't pretend to have everything nailed down and figured out, but all I can say is this kind of work is part of my professional portfolio.
This is not easy to put together as it is nor is the effort insignificant. I'm putting in double time on this. The last thing I want to do when I come home from work is work again....
You get the picture.
Honestly, I'd rather spend my energies on giving it my best effort and giving something back to the members of this forum. If nothing comes of this it will not be due to lack of effort on my part. However, if I have to explain every single step along the way I won't get anything done. Worse yet, my approach will be compromised.

I'm not sure if I detect negative vibes from people about this effort. If so, I have to ask - What have you got to loose? You have someone who is offering their time to pull this together to get you a discount and asking nothing in return. Otherwise you can pay me $380/hr for my time (and that's at a discount[/emoticons/emotion-5.gif])
If you were planning on getting a big wheel kit, you have nothing to loose and everything to gain by being part of this effort. If you were not planning on going big wheel, I am not trying to convince you to do so. I work for none of these vendors and I work only for myself.
So.....anyone want to help?[/emoticons/emotion-3.gif)]
 

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Thom, I totally agree with you. A vendor has to be crazy to actually
turn down a ton of work even at a discounted rate. You definitely
should work hard at arranging a good deal for all the members
that want kits and find the best vendor for the job. I'm sure in
the long run both parties will make out good. All what I am
saying is that I'm a pretty neutral party being that I am friendly
with one of the vendors and I have a 240 already so what I was
trying to do with my post was to prevent any disappointments by
mentioning that there will 'most likely' be a longer turn around
time considering the situation. What I would like to suggest as
part of the deal is make up a definite list and have everyone
send in a deposit to lock in their discounted rate. Than, those
that are able to ride year round should go 1st and those that
can put the bike down for the winter can wait. Again, just my .02.....[/emoticons/emotion-5.gif]
 

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Discussion Starter #52
quote:Originally posted by vector18

Thom, I totally agree with you. A vendor has to be crazy to actually
turn down a ton of work even at a discounted rate. You definitely
should work hard at arranging a good deal for all the members
that want kits and find the best vendor for the job. I'm sure in
the long run both parties will make out good. All what I am
saying is that I'm a pretty neutral party being that I am friendly
with one of the vendors and I have a 240 already so what I was
trying to do with my post was to prevent any disappointments by
mentioning that there will 'most likely' be a longer turn around
time considering the situation. What I would like to suggest as
part of the deal is make up a definite list and have everyone
send in a deposit to lock in their discounted rate. Than, those
that are able to ride year round should go 1st and those that
can put the bike down for the winter can wait. Again, just my .02.....[/emoticons/emotion-5.gif]


thanx - just deposited it in my piggy bank![/emoticons/emotion-3.gif)]

Messx - per your request, you're now off the list.

wreck-ed7, consider yourself on!
 

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Discussion Starter #54
quote:Originally posted by Seeya

Put me in for the 240 chrome and PC arm. Thanks. Appreciate all the effort you're putting in.


consider yourself added - welcome aboard![8D]
 

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Discussion Starter #55
OK folks here's another update. I sent each of the vendors an email with a spreadsheet to fill out for pricing. I sent it to Matt at PE, Reza at CI. Eric at G&S, and I need Jim Crown's email if anyone has it pls PM it to me.
The spreadsheet is relatively straightforward so I don't anticipate any issues. This will greatly speed up the comparison and negotiations.
Below is a copy of the email I sent out. Due date is next Thursday close of business.

********copy of email to vendors********
Hello xxxxx,

Thank you for participating in the bid for the RSWARRIOR.COM Big Wheel Group Buy. So far the list of folks who are potentially your customers (given the right deal) is around 28 and growing as of this writing!

You can keep up to date with the list here:
http://rswarrior.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=58912&whichpage=1

Since there are several different configurations our members are interested in I need to find a way to ensure a fair comparison between you and your competitors. Although the preference would be have 1 vendor as the single source for the complete kit, bolt-on and ready to go, I have attached a spreadsheet that breaks down the components of the big wheel kit.

I would greatly appreciate your help in filling out this spreadsheet with your current prices. Do not worry about the discount at this point. This is just so that I can get a baseline of your current pricing.

I would greatly appreciate you filling in every area that has a "$" sign on it. If you do not offer that particular part or service, pls fill in with "NA". For any "NA" that are added, I will use an average market price for that component that will be consistent with all vendors for a fair comparison.

If you have any questions, pls feel free to contact me at this email address or call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx.

I would greatly appreciate your completed spreadsheet by 5 p.m. central time Thursday, Nov 1. If for some reason you are unable to meet this deadline, pls contact me and let me know when you can.

Thank you again for partnering in this effort. I hope we can make this a win-win situation for all of us.

Best Regards,
Thom
xxx-xxx-xxxx
[email protected]

*************end transmission**************
 

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This is nice work Thom, I'm in depending on price for a 260 powder coat. I'll make any other available option choices later. As for the selected vendor, price and guarantee would drive my vote.

My .02 - There's more to a fab shop's offering in the market than just wide tire kits. Every fabricator is busy making the range of products they make. A group buy helps a fabricator save a little on set-up but not on materials or labor because, again, they are busy already. Its a global market. In the real world, if margins are greater on other products and the shop is booked producing those high-margin items, then a reasonable business person has to at least consider declining any order at tighter margins that is not likely to lead to aditional future orders. Its business economics. If a builder accepts this challenge it will be either because business is slow (not likely) or because they are simply going to help us out.

Thom, I think its smart for you to gather and post the list prices although we all probably already know them. But lets not expect any fire-sale prices here, lets be reasonable with our price expectations or too many guys will drop out and the indicated set-up savings to the vendor will be lost and the price dicount will go too.
 

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Discussion Starter #57
thanx Mike. Good point about expectations. I'm not sure what everyone expects or deems a worthy discount. Would it be reasonable to expect a greater discount in our group buy than what one would get going at it alone? That's all I think folks should expect. Anything less and it would not make any sense to do the group buy....The thing is, there are four reputable vendors and we as a group here on RSW.com are finally getting together and taking a proactive approach to get competitive pricng as opposed to the alternative....

Consider yourself added to the list.


quote:Originally posted by ArizonaWarrior

This is nice work Thom, I'm in depending on price for a 260 powder coat. I'll make any other available option choices later. As for the selected vendor, price and guarantee would drive my vote.

My .02 - There's more to a fab shop's offering in the market than just wide tire kits. Every fabricator is busy making the range of products they make. A group buy helps a fabricator save a little on set-up but not on materials or labor because, again, they are busy already. Its a global market. In the real world, if margins are greater on other products and the shop is booked producing those high-margin items, then a reasonable business person has to at least consider declining any order at tighter margins that is not likely to lead to aditional future orders. Its business economics. If a builder accepts this challenge it will be either because business is slow (not likely) or because they are simply going to help us out.

Thom, I think its smart for you to gather and post the list prices although we all probably already know them. But lets not expect any fire-sale prices here, lets be reasonable with our price expectations or too many guys will drop out and the indicated set-up savings to the vendor will be lost and the price dicount will go too.
 

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What Arizona says makes total sense, but the fact that there are more than 2 vendors helps
you guys out. If there is competition between the vendors, it will be very hard for
any of them to turn down this offer even if they are busy. I'm taking a guess here that
once this group buy is completely finished and everyone has their wide tire kits, that
the vendors business will slow down quite a bit. They have to take this into consideration
when making their decision. Now, if I personally was one of the vendors, I would most likely
be contacting the other vendors and discussing this with them. Again, just my .02
 

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I'm interested in a stock looking wheel (5-spoke) for a 2006 and a powder coated swingarm to match the original. Size can be either a 240 or 260 depending on the final prices.

A question for those members that have experience with 240/260 kits and aftermarket exhaust. Are there interference problems with pipes that extend past the swingarm pivot point (like the Vance and Hines Big Shots) or is that not an issue? How about the belt/sprocket alignment?
 

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Here ya go:http://www.amenmotorcycles.com/index.html

quote:Originally posted by overheadcam427

A question for those members that have experience with 240/260 kits and aftermarket exhaust. Are there interference problems with pipes that extend past the swingarm pivot point (like the Vance and Hines Big Shots) or is that not an issue? How about the belt/sprocket alignment?
 
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