RS Warrior Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

I had to take a little break from swearing... so I can tell my technical issue.
Today, I removed my motor mount stay, so I can shave it and powdercoat it. I had a **** of a time removing it... As with any tough bolts, I wanted to make sure I don't ruin them and started with an air gun to loose a little the bolt then work it with a wrench. On 2 bolts that did not worked and I used gently a rubber hammer with a wrench... hammering slowly until it came off.

While examining the stay and checking how I can shave it, my eyes glimpsed on one of the bolts. I almost dropped the motor stay on the floor... I quickly looked at the other bolts and what I thought it was a bad dream turned into reality. Most bolts were stripped down because the previous mechanic when he screwed the bolts back did not checked if they are properly inserted and screwed them down with an air gun using wrong guidance. The result: both the bolts and inner motor guides are fucked... I went to my boxing bag and punched the **** of it at least 10min...


I composed myself and called the previous owner. I asked him when someone touched to that mount. He said that the only time was when he brought the bike to have the recalls done. So that proves me one more time what shitty job a dealer does... I went back to my boxing bag and punch it for a while again to cool down...

Now, what do I have to do? I have no idea how badly damaged the inner guides are. I called my friend who is a good mechanic and he told me that even if I redo properly the guides inside, it will not be as the original part because it loses integrity and you cannot apply the same torque value. In other words he told me that I'm royally screwed.

I looked into service manual just to see what parts I would need and could not find anything... my hands are shaking as we speak now. I really need your help on this one, guys. Please let me know what I should do:

1) Redo the inner guides for now and hope they will not get damaged eventually because of soft metal
2) Go one one bolt size bigger and have a clean thread tapped into motor heads


Look how the bolts are now (sorry for the fussy pic but my hands are shaking):



The big bolts are almost flat. The small ones still have a little shape on them...
At least I shaved the motor stay a little...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
Relax, this is fixable. First thing I would do is run a tap through the bolt holes and try to clean them up. It might not turn out absolutely perfect, but it could be good enough to work. A second option is a heli coil. I've never used a heli coil on anything extremely load bearing, so you may want to get a second opinion on that. A third option and a last resort is to drill the holes out bigger and tap them. As for the stripped out bolts, well...you can always get new bolts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
670 Posts
Another thing I'd like to suggest. You should contact the dealer that did the work. They will be able to trace it back to the specific mechanic that did it. It's guys like that, that ruin it for competent mechanics. I could see accidently stripping out one bolt. But anybody that knows what they were doing would know it, even while using an impact gun. But stipping out 4 bolts? Thats a little bit rediculous. If I had to guess, I would say that you had a brand new young mechanic working on this bike, and he knew he screwed up stripping out the bolts, but he just put the impact gun on them and rammed them in anyway to try and cover up his mess. A responsible mechanic would never do this. In fact a good mechanic doesn't strip out bolts. I've been a mechanic for 9 years, and I haven't stripped out a bolt in probably 8. When your twisting wrenches every day 40+ hours a weekyou get a feel for it, and it just doesn'thappen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Chris/Martin for the advice. I feel a little better. From the look how badly the bolts are damaged, I'm convinced the interior taps are completely ruined and cannot be restored with a cleanup. The helicoils are a great idea because it will allow me to insert some strong metal into that soft cheese. I wonder how does it stay in place? You have to tap a bigger hole and insert the coil inside...


I don't care about bolts, what I'm really upset is that the motor heads are screwed because of this incompetent guy. First, I would never use an air gun on a soft metal like that... anything can go wrong and you won't feel it. Not to mention they were not torqued to recommended value. Second, as you said... all 4 bolts are destroyed. I'm really afraid to look at other bolts that might be also ruined because of the same guy who did the job.

As for finding out who did it... it is probably not worth the effort. The recalls were done years ago, not recently. Probably the guy is fired, I might not be the first customer who complained. No matter what I do, I will not be able to drive 800miles to see the dealer and ask them to fix something the did 2-3 years ago.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,819 Posts
Sorry to hear about your delima Tech. If it were me I would buy some new bolts,use your tap and clean the threads up,wrap teflon tape around the threads of your bolts so the bolts fit snug,and put them back in. Try to torque them to the recommended lbs. and if they don't strip, ride it a while and then check the torque.Every time you ride when you get back check the torque.If after a while of riding and no problems,it will keep you going till you want to do something else.Iv'e heard of people taking that motor mount completely off, so maybe there is not so much pressure,and it will suffice. Good luck
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
29,925 Posts
If the female threads are gone, I believe Helicoil is your best option. Its not worth buying all the special tools used to prep and insert/attach them. Its also not a good location to learn how-to because if you mess it up, it'll really be bad news. Most machine shops install them, find a local guy and trailer it over. Its that easy. Here's some ink on getting the right helocoil for aluminum so you are asking the right questions on the phone finding a local machine shop.


http://www.emhart.com/products/helicoil/techtop/tt5.asp
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,918 Posts
TECK .... the fact that the 4-bolts didn't come out easy might indicate that there is enough parentmat'l remaining tochase the thd's with the proper tap.


Speculation and my .02 from where i'm sitting: Thebolts don't appear to have aluminum in the thd's but appear to beflattenedout to nearly under the heads whichmight indicate that they were all rubbing the steel motor mount holes when installed during the trani recall because of a misalignment of the motor to the frame. If i'm correct then there should be a foot print of the rubbing in all 4-holes on probably one side.


If the threads haven't been pulled out i would invest in a 4-flute Taper or Plug handtap to restore the thd's. The taper tap is easier to work with and can be ground back as a bottoming tap after cleaning up the holes to get additional thd's and possibly longer screws. My guess is the bolts in question are at leastM12 ** M10and fine thd'd possibly???


Installing a thd'd insert might require the removal of the 2-heads depending on the type insert and capabilities of the machine shop.


Good Luck


** Edited at 5:16 PM (GMT -5) on Nov 26, 2008
P/N's &$'staken from the MSSS.com Parts Fiche - FRAME - 2003



21
BOLT,FLANGE (3GD)
95817-10025-00 (replaces95827-10025-00)
2
$0.54



22
BOLT
90111-10003-00
2
$1.62
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Alan, you are right, no aluminium remains present and the bolt tap is almost completely flatened on the big bolts. IMO, both cilinder heads need to be pulled out in order to perform a precise job (not to mention that it will not be cheap to do it in a shop). As Mike said, I will not attempt this job myself because the equipment needed. The Time-Serts look like very good alternatives, especially the locking mechanism they have in place...

I was going to ask you what are the bolt sizes for the 4 bolts displayed in the picture. I could not find anything in the service manual. If I know the bolts size, I think the best is to stick SS... Let me know please.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,916 Posts
Teck,


Don;'t waste your time trying to find out who did it. The one that goes to my rear jug was the same way. I bought a new bolt and simply screwed it in. It was tight but it held just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
i'd say go for heli coils, and just be careful. figure out the depth of the hole and mark it on the bit that comes in the heli coil kit, than just slowly work your way into there. i've used heli coils on diesel blocks and trannys that held the whole load, still runnin strong.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,918 Posts
TECK said:
Alan, you are right, no aluminium remains present and the bolt tap is almost completely flatened on the big bolts. IMO, both cilinder heads need to be pulled out in order to perform a precise job (not to mention that it will not be cheap to do it in a shop). As Mike said, I will not attempt this job myself because the equipment needed. The Time-Serts look like very good alternatives, especially the locking mechanism they have in place...

[*]I did not recommend you pull the heads. I suggested you attempt to salvage the existing thd's using aproper tap.

[*]FYI, a M6 thd'd insert is more difficult to install than a M8 & up. It's lots easier keeping the larger drilled hole for the insert tapperpendicular and the insertion tool is only 1-pc. The smaller holes M6 & < tend to runout unless you use a guide and the insertion tool is 2-pcs and a PITA IMO.[/list]
[*]You should be able to pick up a M10 x 1.25p Fine or 1.75p std hand tapfor $15.00 US from McMaster-Carr[/list]


I was going to ask you what are the bolt sizes for the 4 bolts displayed in the picture. I could not find anything in the service manual. If I know the bolts size, I think the best is to stick SS... Let me know please.

[*]The passenger & rider peg support brackets use M10 x 1.25p fine thread to the bike aluminum frame. Pull one out and check the pitch


[*]This is not an application for SS (stainless steel screws), they are too soft and not commercially available in fine pitch if that is what is req'd.
[/list][/list]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks guys for the good advices. I will start with re-tapping the threads, as Chris/Alan/Duke suggested...
I want to order the bolts directly from Yamaha. Could you be kind and help me out with the page number in service manual or part number?

EDIT: Thanks for the part numbers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,810 Posts
On page 2-24 of the manual, under Tightening Torques, they list the bolt as either M10 or M12. Noticing that you are also for Montreal, their is a gentleman on the Soth Shore that owns Lemoyne Moto. His name is Bob and can be reached at (450) 671-3849. He's done helicoils for me before. Hope this helps. PM me if you need a hand trying to fix, I'm down in LaPrairie and there is also another member, Lowboy, that is a mechanic in St.Jean.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,837 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Some update: I did not touched yet the bike, it stays in the garage, in pieces. I will start working on it, only when I get back from Eric the 280 kit. Even then, I'm not comfortable at all to retap the soft metal directly into engine... I will call a professional and have it done by the book. Rather spend 150$ and let him see what is the best solution for my issue. Alex Bertihaume is a pretty good old school dealer, they do anything on Warrior. Family owned business...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,351 Posts
Drill n tap is the way.Take your time.Do it yourself so you know its done rite. I had to do this to the oil pressure fiting on the motor. I had the same feelings you do,but have the comfort of knowing it is fine now and done corectly by me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,694 Posts
Heli coils work well used them on the harmonic balancer on my first car and that took 150 ftlbs of torque.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top