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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I changed my oil yesterday after having done 3,124 miles with it since my last oil change and drained the old oil into a clean plastic bowl. Afterwards I poured that oil into the empty oil bottles in which the fresh oil had been.
At the the bottom of the plastic bowl there now remained a few very small hard shiny particles almost like very fine beach sand grains size wise ....if I rub it between my fingers it feels gritty....really not very many, only a few and I think they might be metallic of some kind but can't be sure but it still makes me wonder if that is normal or cause for concern? I'm thinking maybe it's particles from the wet clutch plates. Anyone else ever noticed it in their old oil after an oil change?
Googled it extensively...apparently it is not desirable but it is quite normal to have a small amount of this grit in your old oil. Best thing to do is use magnetic oil drain plugs to stop it circulating through your engine. Anyone use those?
 

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I don't use mag-plugs but mostly only because they are often taller and I don't know the clear space dimension inside the motor. If the plug reaches further into the motor then the internal moving parts might interfere.

The biggest reason I don't is the ferrous material is all that catches. There's lots of different alloys and fibers in the beast. And hopefully all of that crud gets trapped in the oil filter.

For that reason I drain my oil filter in a separate pan. That oil feels gritty. The oil from the motor drains seldom feels gritty, and with Amsoil its most often as slippery feeling as it was when new.

Back when the kids were young we had their microscope in the house. I used it on oil dregs a couple times. It was interesting, but didn't have any practical use. That was before synthetics became commonplace. You could do it too. Who knows what you might find out!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Aha...AW I think you just gave me my answer....you empty your oil filter in a separate pan.....I didn't, I emptied it in the same pan with the oil from the 2 drain holes....Next time I will do as you did and check if it made the difference. And so even with Amsoil your oil from the filter feels gritty, so it would seem quite normal then.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't use mag-plugs but mostly only because they are often taller and I don't know the clear space dimension inside the motor. If the plug reaches further into the motor then the internal moving parts might interfere.

The biggest reason I don't is the ferrous material is all that catches. There's lots of different alloys and fibers in the beast. And hopefully all of that crud gets trapped in the oil filter.

For that reason I drain my oil filter in a separate pan. That oil feels gritty. The oil from the motor drains seldom feels gritty, and with Amsoil its most often as slippery feeling as it was when new.

Back when the kids were young we had their microscope in the house. I used it on oil dregs a couple times. It was interesting, but didn't have any practical use. That was before synthetics became commonplace. You could do it too. Who knows what you might find out!
Aha...AW I think you just gave me my answer....you empty your oil filter in a separate pan.....I didn't, I emptied it in the same pan with the oil from the 2 drain holes....Next time I will do as you did and check if it made the difference. And so even with Amsoil your oil from the filter feels gritty, so it would seem quite normal then.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
That made me laugh! Yep I certainly feel mini right now . . . but thankfully you n me are equally fugly-mini and comically evil!
Sorry maybe I'm just plain dumb...I am blond after all ;)....please explain what I am missing here about my reply regarding the grit in my oil filter in my last comment in this thread. I think I know. AW stated that that he drains his oil filter oil seperately and then finds grit in that oil. But if you think about that statement it does not make sense because the oil that comes out of the oil filter should be clean and without grit as any particles would be trapped in the filter media and the dirty oil that might contain any particles or grit cannot escape from the filter because of the anti-drainback valve. So when you drain the oil from the oil filter into a separate pan that oil would be without grit because that oil has passed through the filter media and any grit that it might have contained has been removed by the filter media and is now stuck in the filter media and the oil on the "dirty" side of the filter media cannot flow back into the engine because of the anti-drainback valve. See attached drawing of how the oil passes through an oil filter. So the grit I found in my oil could not have come from the oil filter and it would be impossible for any grit to have been present in the oil that AW drained from his oil filter into a separate pan. So AW's statement that he found grit in the oil from his oil filter is not possible as any grit would be trapped in the space between the anti-drainback valve and the filter media or stuck in the filter media on the "dirty" side so cannot ever end up in the bit of oil that drained out of the discarded oil filter. Therefore the grit I found in my oilpan must be grit that accumulated at the bottom of my sump somehow and the grit that AW found in the oil from his oil filter was a myth or a joke or whatever the reason was that AW said that. Is that the joke? If so I can't see the humour in it at all...sorry. Is that why I am the butt-end of your private joke?
So I don't really know or understand why you two are having a private joke on me and giggling about it like two nasty little schoolgirls. I mean can take a joke but I don't really appreciate having the micky taken out of me at my expense and at the same time being kept in the dark about what was a serious question from my side in seeking answers to my observations. This doesn't help me or anyone following this thread. Please explain yourselves if you don't mind.
252653
 

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Discussion Starter #8
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The trash in the crankcase has not been circulated through the oil filter yet = no worries.
To check for failing engine components / engine condition get a oil filter cutter, spread the filter pleats out & check for debris with a bright light & a magnet. Swarf that sticks to the magnet is more than likely transmission iron. Shiny bits = piston, grey = bearings, a microscopic amount is normal, a lot of it = major issues. Other trash is probably clutch plate residue / carbon.
Use your nose --- if the drain oil does not smell burnt your good to go.
 
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When the used oil filter is removed, all the baseplate holes are open. The oil that drains out of the dirty side of the filter element carries some grit with it. It's enough to feel. Been doing it all my life on cars trucks bikes what ever. I'm not alone. As for my post that you quoted, I was replying to another member who has a sense of humor directed at me making me laugh. Not everything is about you. We're bikers having fun and trying to help others. Been doing it awhile. As for the rest of your post, we'll, I don't care.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
When the used oil filter is removed, all the baseplate holes are open. The oil that drains out of the dirty side of the filter element carries some grit with it. It's enough to feel. Been doing it all my life on cars trucks bikes what ever. I'm not alone. As for my post that you quoted, I was replying to another member who has a sense of humor directed at me making me laugh. Not everything is about you. We're bikers having fun and trying to help others. Been doing it awhile. As for the rest of your post, we'll, I don't care.
I never said or thought everything is about me. But I do apologise that I misunderstood and that the micky wasn't being taken out of me. I did add that I can take a joke but misunderstood that my question wasn't being taken seriously and that I was being laughed at and that my question was somehow a stupid question which could have been possible. Anyway the baseplate holes are not open when the filter is removed as they are still sealed by the silicone anti drain valve/seal aren't they? The only holet hat is open is the big center hole which is on the "clean" side of the filter I thought.
As for the rest of my post...what rest? that was all there was.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
The trash in the crankcase has not been circulated through the oil filter yet = no worries.
To check for failing engine components / engine condition get a oil filter cutter, spread the filter pleats out & check for debris with a bright light & a magnet. Swarf that sticks to the magnet is more than likely transmission iron. Shiny bits = piston, grey = bearings, a microscopic amount is normal, a lot of it = major issues. Other trash is probably clutch plate residue / carbon.
Use your nose --- if the drain oil does not smell burnt your good to go.
Hi Church...I did open the oil filter today with a pipe cutter...the pleats have no particles or flakes or anything like that that I can discern but the pleats are darker then when they were when new...the same color as the old oil I would say...darkened by the old oil. You say the trash in the crankcase has not been circulated through the oil filter...why is that? does that mean that it just lies there at the bottom of the sump/oilpan because it's too heavy to be carried by the oil flow to the filter or does the scavenger pump have a sieve or filter of it's own that prevents those larger particles from being sucked up and pumped to the oil filter?
 

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Look, like I suggested before, I drain the filter in a separate container to check for grit. That should have been enough for you to realize to use a poker to push the seal open before inverting it. That is the dirty side. That is the oil you want to check. It's going to have grit. Your motor/tank oil should not have much if any metal. Maybe clutch fibers. You are interested in gears and bearings. Much of the other is not ferrous. That is one reason I don't use a magnetic oil plug. Why don't you find an easier way to check. Filter cutters are great. Have at it.
 

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Hi Church...I did open the oil filter today with a pipe cutter...the pleats are clean as a new pair of underpants...no particles or flakes or anything to be seen. You say the trash in the crankcase has not been circulated through the oil filter...does that mean that it just lies there at the bottom of the sump because it's too heavy to be carried by the oil flow to the filter or does the scavenger pump have a sieve or filter of it's own that prevents those larger particles from being sucked up and pumped to the oil filter?
You are saying your motor and oil tank oil is gritty but your oil filter is clean both sides? It sounds like possibly your filter or motor or both are running in bypass mode. What is the filter's bypass psi? Most are low psi so oil is unfiltered at just a couple psi. Some, like this bike, need higher psi bypass valves. In any event, the grit in your drained motor oil was light. But over 3k miles and perfectly clean filter pleats is hard to understand.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Look, like I suggested before, I drain the filter in a separate container to check for grit. That should have been enough for you to realize to use a poker to push the seal open before inverting it. That is the dirty side. That is the oil you want to check. It's going to have grit. Your motor/tank oil should not have much if any metal. Maybe clutch fibers. You are interested in gears and bearings. Much of it is not ferrous. That is one reason I don't use a magnetic oil plug. Why don't you find an easier way to check. Filter cutters are great. Have at it.
Aha ok...see I am blond and dumb...I never thought about using a poker or stick or whatever to open the anti drain valve holes....hmmmmm and I never realized that like you say I should have ....dumb stupid me :) Next time I will know what to do. tanks very much.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
You are saying your motor and oil tank oil is gritty but your oil filter is clean both sides? It sounds like possibly your filter or motor or both are running in bypass mode. What is the filter's bypass psi? Most are low psi so oil is unfiltered at just a couple psi. Some, like this bike, need higher psi bypass valves. In any event, the grit in your drained motor oil was light. But over 3k miles and perfectly clean filter pleats is hard to understand.
Champion oil filter 11-17 psi as required and I actually check my filter every now again to make sure the oil is circulating properly by stopping after a cold start and having ridden for about 10 miles. I then feel the oil filter by hand and have always found it to be hot from the circulating oil. Well ok the filter pleats were not 100% clean I suppose as the had colored a bit darker just like the oil itself but I could not detect any grit in there that I could feel. Anyway since I didn't open the anti drain poke holes that means that the grit did not come from my filter but came from the oil that I drained from the 2 drainholes which means that my engine is on it's way out :( **** but she runs so good and sweet without any funny noises ...she purrs......no lack of power and response....just goes to show then that a engine busy self destructing can still run fine while silently grinding away at all the metal moving parts unnoticed except for the tell tale signs of metallic grit in the bottom of the sump/oilpan.....I just cannot understand why none of that grit ends up in the oil filter as the oil filter is getting good and hot showing the oil is circulating through it....what a situation...don't really know what to do now..part her out and sell I guess before she bombs out which will now probably happen pretty soon....and that at only 20,500 miles heck what a situation :( this is really the end it seems.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Champion COF203?
Yes but it doesn't matter anymore now as it seems by all accounts my engine is toast...heck I never expected this...what an ending...so dissappointed :(
was nice getting to know you all and thanks for all the help I have had from you all. I will be selling my spare fuel tank then as well...it is brand new and never been used
 

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That has nitrile rubber valves/seals including backflow. But you only had it installed for 3k miles so it may have weakened from heat and activity but it most likely did not leak.

I have been searching for the factory info showing COF203 bypass psi but its not listed by Champion in any country that I have found.

It's unlikely your motor is toast. Most debris is fibers. If you stick a magnet into the tub of waste oil you would find some that sticks, and its small, and if it's not carried along by the motor oil it sits by the drain plug due to its internal shape. So it exits with the drain oil. But its very seldom anything of any size is found, especially when you said your motor runs great.

Over-reacting. Or is there something you don't want to post that makes you feel how you feel.

In the future keep drained motor oil separate from drained filter oil so you have an accurate picture of where things come from.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
That has nitrile rubber valves/seals including backflow. But you only had it installed for 3k miles so it may have weakened from heat and activity but it most likely did not leak.

I have been searching for the factory info showing COF203 bypass psi but its not listed by Champion in any country that I have found.

It's unlikely your motor is toast. Most debris is fibers. If you stick a magnet into the tub of waste oil you would find some that sticks, and its small, and if it's not carried along by the motor oil it sits by the drain plug due to its internal shape. So it exits with the drain oil. But its very seldom anything of any size is found, especially when you said your motor runs great.

Over-reacting. Or is there something you don't want to post that makes you feel how you feel.

In the future keep drained motor oil separate from drained filter oil so you have an accurate picture of where things come from.
No not at all...just very depressed about all this...i suffer from bouts of depression and this just seems like very bad news to me....nothing else that I didn't divulge about the situation but it just seems like there is no hope for a good ending left with all the feedback pointing to the worst :(

That COF203 filter I actually e-mailed the Champion customer care department at the time when I purchased it to inquire about the PSI. I received a reply from their technical department that that filter was the right one for my Warrior 1700 and that. the PSI is correct being 11-17PSI. Also the old filters looked fine and the rubber/silicone valve was in perfect shape by the looks of it. But the reply I got from Church seems to suggest everything is ok and nothing to worry about...Quote "The trash in the crankcase has not been circulated through the oil filter yet = no worries." Unquote
But then why has the trash in the crankcase not been circulated? I don't understand that. No worries seems to imply that that is normal...is it?
 
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