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'05 Midnight
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I accidentally overtook another thread about ECU Bumping and Bump Switch Mod Installation and decided it was time to spin it off into its own thread so here it is.

I did the Ivan's Flash on my ECU during the holidays and haven't been able to really ride it much since but have discovered my bike was running really lean, which is why I was (and still am) exploring ECU bumping. In the meantime, I've hooked my PC-III back up to see if I could address both the lean condition as well as some extra backfiring I've been dealing with since getting my ECU flashed. I kept the map I was running prior to my flash but that was WAY too rich so I have installed a different map that dials it down a bit. It smells much better so far, but it seems like there's still quite a bit of work left to dial this in... I wish I had a full weekend to just dedicate knocking this out, but with my work and family life/schedule, I do research at night (and maybe a little during work), quiet work at night, and then map uploading in the morning before heading out.

So, here's what I'm dealing with:

2005 Midnight Warrior​
Ivan's ECU Flash​
Churchkey's VBAK​
Speedstar Gen II Exhaust​
AIS Delete​
Power Commander III USB Version 2​

Without Ivan's Flash, but all other mods done, I ran Bucky's Map.

Yamaha Road Star Warrior​
Speed Star 2-1-2 (Gen II)​
Churchkey V-BAK​
AIS Block Off​

That ran fairly well but had the occasional backfire but it was pretty rare and I could do it on command or prevent it from occurring through throttle control during decel.

With Ivan's Flash, but without PC-III, I was running lean and there was noticeable back fires that I could not control during decel. No back fire during acceleration or cruise.

I've now started to add my PC-III back and ran it with Bucky's map but it felt/smelt quite rich, had uncontrollable back fires during decel, and had the occasional back fire (is that what it's called) into the intakes. I knew I had to do something about that right away so I uploaded rx_warrior's Burrito map.

VBAK
2-1-2 pipe such as the S* pipe
RX_Warrior made map by averaging all the maps that closely resemble map above in the hope that averaging over several maps may yield a middle of the road usability and tunability
Rx+Loren+Nolan+customadvanced+Dynojet 403-030

Here are the maps for comparison.

Bucky's Map:
Rectangle Font Slope Screenshot Parallel


rx_warrior's Burrito Map
Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel Slope
 

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'05 Midnight
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
The Burrito map is known to run better on many Warriors. Go ahead now and ride the bike as you normally would. There is no further benefit in trying to make it not pop. Your riding style is not the problem. The bike likes rpm.

Ride it to see how it does. If low rpm is noisy then test this. In 1500 rpm line make the 19's into 17. Make the 20 an 18. Make the 18 a 16. See if this smooths the acceleration arc and reduces pop. If it does, then play with mild smoothing. The idea is that, when accelerating normally, you don't want to induce erratic fueling simply because you are slightly progressively twisting the throttle open. It can force the motor to seek and surge. So test to smooth it for times when you need to ride in some posted speed zone and cannot just accelerate through that set of fields. Keep in mind that the hard-coded fuel map in the ECU is not what most would expect it to look like. Some detuning is coded-in. However, even so, the stock throttle control on a stock setup is nicely mannered. Smooth. So it's fine to smooth an aftermarket map but the fact is there will be field anomalies because of gearing and power band.

There is an introductory help file in Documentation (Fuel Managers, Post #2) that gets into how to start thinking in multiple directions. Its titled About Power Commander Map Values. It helps tweak your brain to envision what is happening when you ride at (for example) a fixed rpm versus accelerate thru that rpm or decelerate back thru that rpm. It highlights that the map fields are applied when accelerating thru the conditions and when decelerating through the conditions.

It's a weird way to think. But to the extent it can be seen in your minds eye while you are riding normally, it helps you notice points in the map by guessing its throttle position and rpm and if it happens when accelerating or decelerating. Then you can look at the map file and effectively test small incremental tweaks in rpm changes both at fixed throttle and during increasing/decreasing throttle. Then some of the weird map values cause less worry. Others might jump up and beg for testing. RPM learning curve lol.
I ran the Burrito map this morning. Overall, it felt like the bike ran much smoother, but the back firing was potentially even worse. I didn't have any back fires into the intake, though, so small win.

I do run like a bat outta he11 90% of the time. My commute is all surface streets with 1/4 mile between stoplights so each and every light is a new drag strip for me, but I stop accelerating around 55 cause.... you know.... tickets suck.

I like the idea about tweaking the map to bump it down here and there. Also, when uploading the map, I noticed that my throttle seems to never go to 0% so I think I may need to make an adjustment there too.

Thanks for the suggestion to read up on About Power Commander Map Values. I think that'll help in a lot of ways. It'll also help me to waste my day at work... ;)
 

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I was also getting backfires and occasional coughs through intake after the ivan's flash. The previous custom map no longer worked well with the new flash. Getting it back on the dyno again he noticed some lean spots on the chart. With a new tune it solved everything
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I was also getting backfires and occasional coughs through intake after the ivan's flash. The previous custom map no longer worked well with the new flash. Getting it back on the dyno again he noticed some lean spots on the chart. With a new tune it solved everything
Do you have a PC-III? I'm tempted to go that route but after reading the document AZ (and too late, but Hefty) pointed me to, I'm thinking I could really play with the map to do some kinda crazy things by knowing how I ride and keeping in mind where my throttle is for different RPM's. For instance, I could do a completely custom WOT from 0 knowing that if I want to blast off the line from the light, I could snap into a custom acceleration "tune" by holding WOT immediately after green. I know I'm over simplifying it, but I think you get the gist of where I'm going. The bike would become unrideable for everyone else but let's be honest, who lets anyone else take our girls for a spin? If someone wants to ride my bike, it's the first two weeks I have her, then we're monogamous. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Right on! So, Ivan's, PC-III, Bigshots, BAK, and a custom tune and no back fires... maybe I just need to bite that bullet, then.

But tinkering is so much fun!!

I was reading some more in About Warrior Bump and Fuel Managers and it looks like I really should start from the beginning and dial in my idle ECU bump number first, then go from there. There are a few other items I need to address like resetting my 0% throttle position and my Low, Mid, High positions on my PC-III, among other things to really do this right... super tricky since I am supposed to be going on a ride on Saturday that I'd like for this to be worked out before then, but it's not looking like that's going to happen so..... maybe I'll call out sick tomorrow. ;) priorities... :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well.... I called the local Dyno guy and they said that the PC-III is too old so get a PC-V and give them a call.... definitely not doing that. If I buy something else, it's going to auto-tune!

Guess I'll continue reading and tinkering. Bear with me as I hope to make some progress soon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
As a separate discussion, looks/sound aside, would putting my stock exhaust back on potentially make things better? Like, if I pull my PC-III off and my only remaining mods are Ivan's Flash, VBAK, and AIS delete? Cause I can do that tonight. My short term goal is to be able to ride this weekend without having to be SUPER careful on my throttle management as I'll be riding with dozens of other riders and I'd hate to be that one guy with back firing issues...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I know.... I think I'm going to go home early today, update my map to a stock one from the Dynojet website, go for a test ride while my daughter and wife are at swim class... if it's not significantly better, then I'll be swapping pipes this evening and will test more tomorrow. Stay TUNED (see what I did there...)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well, my ride home was actually much better than this morning on the Burrito map. I wasn't able to update and test ride my other map this evening as my wife wasn't feeling up to taking my daughter to swim class. PERFECTLY fine with me! More time for me with her; bonus it's doing some deep trust building activity!

So, I'll be testing the next map tomorrow morning and hopefully a couple times tomorrow throughout the day so I'll know whether or not to swap pipes for Saturday's ride.

In the meantime, I've been doing more with the Dynojet PC Software and comparing maps so I can try to wrap my mind a bit more around how the various map settings affect performance, both good and bad.

Here are my map comparisons:
Bucky vs Burrito
Rectangle Font Slope Line Screenshot


Bucky vs Stock (not zero)
Rectangle Font Slope Line Parallel


Burrito vs Stock
Rectangle Font Slope Line Parallel


I've definitely been running rich so I'm feeling pretty optimistic about where I'm headed.

Based on what I'm learning, I'll probably make some changes by combining settings from different maps so more to come.
 

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Well, my ride home was actually much better than this morning on the Burrito map. I wasn't able to update and test ride my other map this evening as my wife wasn't feeling up to taking my daughter to swim class. PERFECTLY fine with me! More time for me with her; bonus it's doing some deep trust building activity!

So, I'll be testing the next map tomorrow morning and hopefully a couple times tomorrow throughout the day so I'll know whether or not to swap pipes for Saturday's ride.

In the meantime, I've been doing more with the Dynojet PC Software and comparing maps so I can try to wrap my mind a bit more around how the various map settings affect performance, both good and bad.

Here are my map comparisons:
Bucky vs Burrito
View attachment 256273

Bucky vs Stock (not zero)
View attachment 256274

Burrito vs Stock
View attachment 256275

I've definitely been running rich so I'm feeling pretty optimistic about where I'm headed.

Based on what I'm learning, I'll probably make some changes by combining settings from different maps so more to come.

The BURRITO map was built by averaging similar maps based on mods and member reports of good results. He really hit the mark as evidenced by so many other members adopting it over the years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Running rich or lean .... how do you check?
Always looking at the colo(u)r of the sparks each and every time ?
Unfortunately, no. Not right now. I'm currently basing it on how hot my rear cylinder exhaust is (hot=lean) and the overwhelming smell of fuel after riding (rich). I KNOW it's not the technical way, but I currently don't have the time to do the proper readings or properly long test rides. So, between those two egregious symptoms, I know I've got some major challenges to work out.

As for time being on my side, well.... I don't want to do 200 miles on Saturday with a really poor setup. So, I'm just trying to get it rideable without damaging anything by then. THEN I'll start doing a proper dialing in based on plug readings and 30-40 minute test rides. That'll probably take me 2 months to get done at the best rate I can achieve with my work and family schedules. :/ I'll get it done, though, and will be posting along the way as you guys have definitely given me more insight than what I could have possibly achieved on my own. Plus, I know someone else will be looking at this thread in the future as they go through the same process. Hopefully, by the end, I can do a proper writeup with some shortcuts and lessons learned. I've learned a ton from previous challenge documentation but have also seen where additional detail might have been nice. I try to fill in those gaps when I go through the same challenges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bucky's looks a little fat to me.
I would try to look at Caledonian and Burrito and mesh them together.
I was thinking the same thing about Bucky's. It ran really well with my mods prior to Ivan's Flash, but really not well since.

I just reviewed Caledonian's blurb so I'll take a look at it in the map software and see how it compares.

Do you know if there's any easy way to mesh maps or is it pretty manual using Excel? I'm good with Excel so I can definitely do that, no problem at all, but if there's an easier way.... well.... why reinvent the wheel....
 
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