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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I got my Warrior, in May '08, it had a Baron's BAK, a crappy map on the PC3, AIS block off, and Samson Street Sweepers with no baffles. I had it Dynoed at 82 hp and 98 torque. The air/fuel ratio was completely screwed up (super lean to super rich and gradually back up to lean by the rev limiter.)


I've done alot to the bike since then. I added a VBAK, and 2-1 speedstar headers with a resonated tip, AIS block off, Amsoil full synthetic oil, a much better map, PC3 perfect install, and a 31T front pulley. I just had it dynoed again, and my new numbers are 67 hp and 93 torque. The air/fuel ratio stays within the 12-13.5:1 area thoughout the rev band.


I live at 3,000 ft elevation, so I don't get the same kind of dyno numbers you guys at sea-level see.


When I put the VBAK and the Speedstar headers (open pipe) on the bike, I say noticeable gains on the butt dyno. Since I have added the resonated tip and the 31T pulley, I am seeing these losses in power.


I have some ideas as to why I'm experiencing this loss, in the face of performance upgrades.


1) I had my front right spark plug wire pull free of the boot. I fixed it (I think). It's not loose anymore. How can I be sure it's getting a spark?Could this be affecting my power if it's not getting a spark to the jug?


2)The resonated tip on my pipes. I had more power and torquewhen the pipes were open. Could this resonated tip be hindering me that much? I thought a baffled pipe would create more backpressure (Torque).


3) The 31T Front Pulley. Has this pulley changed my timing, and there by messed up my power? If so, what have you guys that have installed the 31T pulley had to do in addition to the pulley?


I really need some seasoned help here. Before I go and do anything drastic, I was hoping that one of you vets could help me make sense of things.


Thanks!!!
 

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How it does it feel in the seat of your pants after the pully and tip where added. Depending on the tip it could make a difference. When I had sampsons on with a pc3 generic map, and vbak I dynoed at 67hp 97lb. I have not had it on a dyno since recent mods but now have a v&h propipe, better map, perfect install on pc3, and 31t pully. It has definatly opened up this beast. I got out a few days when it was nice to test the pully out and can already see my tire bills will be going up.
 

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I found this good read on an aussie GM V8 forum (Ls1.com.au) today regarding Dyno numbers. It's a bit long winded but interesting anyway and may or may not be applicable to your situation.


please note:- HP-F = Horsepower Factory (performance tuning house), BF Typhoon = Ford turbo straight six ute.








I have touched on my despair of dyno figures and the importance most people put on the numbers at the top of the dyno sheet in a few posts over the years. I just thought I’d start a dyno Mythbusters post and pass on some of my findings over the years. This is something I have wanted to write for years as in my position of performance sales manager I have to deal with this sort of thing countless times a day. Not everyone will be happy reading this as a lot of people here and on other forums hold the dyno sheet close to the ego.

Also, I can see how some shops feel that they have to provide big numbers as the customer demands the same figure as his mate or some guy on the forum with similar mods. But in the end, it starts and finishes with the performance dyno shops.

I bought a BF Typhoon about 2 months ago, the previous owner had the car tuned with injectors and a cat mod. He was given a dyno sheet stating 315rwkw. I did not buy the car because of the stated power nor am I for a second suggesting the previous owner pulled a shifty, but when I got the car back home, and without touching a thing, it made 279rwkw on the HP-F dyno. Where the missing 35rwkw fits into the list below, I don’t know. But this is the sort of thing that can make a customer think that one shop is *** and another the kings.

No dyno reads exactly the same! HP-F have two dyno’s, they read different. A dyno is not a ruler where 30cm is always 30cm wherever it’s measured. Every dyno company and just about every shop will say theirs reads more accurate or more repeatable which is great, but the simple fact is that every dyno reads different and comparing one to another is folly. The difference between one run and the next on the same dyno is what you need to keep in mind.

There is more than one way to dyno a car! HP-F have had the privilege to be able to build and tune some of the tuffest dyno cars in the country, the dyno HP-F use to tune the big bangers is set up to make 1700+hp turn the rollers with minimal slip and when Dyno Dynamics wants there latest technology tested they come to us. Utilising this latest technology gives us no choice but to follow the rules when strapping down a car. The Dyno Dynamics dyno is calibrated to have the rear rollers stay in constant contact with the wheels all the way through the run, if they come off, the power number will be inaccurate and read higher than it should. Strapping down of the car on the dyno has a huge effect on the final reading, a car with loose straps will ride up on the front roller for most of the run and then normally just after peak power the car will sit back in onto both rollers, you can see on the graph when this happens as the power line drops, looking something like (and often confused with) faulty valve springs.

The dyno is only as good as its operator! There is quite a few other ways for the dyno to read inaccurately, the incorrect placement of the intake air temp probe is a beauty and incorrectly typing in Barometer reading will have a real effect. All these things are easy to avoid for the alert operator and easy to tamper with for the dishonest. Calibration and regular service can also help maintain constant, reliable numbers.

Different tyres will read different power! We once had a car make a lot less power then what we thought it should for the given mods, we got the car up on the hoist, searched high and low, checked compression, double checked the tune, dropped the exhaust, changed intakes, you name it we tried it. Nothing doing. One of the guys took a backward step, had a look at the car and suggested we should try different tyres. The ones on the car were brand new but what did we have to loose? We pulled a couple of wheels of Rob’s ute and bung ‘em on. The car picked up the lost power, and some… 25rwkw from a tyre change!! Tell me, how do you compare one car to another? :confused:

Each engine is different! Two cars with the same mods rarely make the same power, even in standard form most cars make different power on the dyno. Or what about auto or manual? High stall torque converters? These thing all effect the power readings. Again, how do you compare one car to another?

A tune for the dyno and a tune for the road! Simple really, a lot of times the final run on the dyno needs to be trimmed up to stop the odd ping found on the road test, big problem with XR6-Turbo’s. The main issue with this is that you pick up your car with X-power figure on the dyno graph and a few days later you dyno the car somewhere else and it reads low or, your mate expects what your makes. What about a race cam in a road car, you want to replace valve springs every 20,000 kays or do you want to flycut the pistons to fit it in?? Nothing wrong with either of these two options if your prepared to go through it, but to base you figures for a ‘cam only’ upgrade on custom shop set up’s is folly.

And Finally…

Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story! How the car was run up on the dyno is another thing. Race fuel? Shhssh don’t tell anyone. The problem with that is that one day your going to have to repeat it and one day the car might be out of your hands and the questions will start. Disclosure of the facts is important as anything else if you want to be taken seriously and not live a life where everyone now doubts your every move. So how can you tell? Simply, you probably cant, but like life, if it is seems too good to be true, it most probably is.
 

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Your original 82hp dyno is (was)probably very accurate based on oem claims and known dyno results over time.


Did this newest dyno dude tune it same time, or just test it? If he tuned it he did a crappy job or his dyno sucks.


BTW straight headers maximize TQ at the expense of HP. The tip probably isn't long enough to create exhaust pulse scavenging (the purpose of creating a little back pressure) and without scavenging you don't maximize HP. V2's are picky beasts with only 2 exhaust pulses exiting per exaust stroke.


To check spark, buy a cheap in-line tester (a light that plugs between the spark plug and the boot/wire). Or buy a set of 4 silly lights meant to jazz-up your bike when the plugs fire. Old skool, remove all the plug wires from the plugs, install the plug wire on the plug you want to test, lay that plug on the motor metal so you can see the gap, then momentarily crank the engine watching for spark.


The 31T pulley won't change the tuning efficiency of the motor.


The timing is set by a fixed steel wheel (see the service manual). For this purpose assume its not adjustable even though there is a way to advance the timing it involves precision grinding of the timing wheel and so is not for the faint at heart.


Yes the 3k elevation has some impact but not 67hp worth.


References:


JUMP to Topic "Horsepower and Atmospherics"
1. http://rswarrior.com/forums/t/114158.aspx


Horsepower - Stock:
1. 80HP with 104 Ft/Lbs Torque according to Yamaha press releases.
2. ~77HP with ~100 Ft/Lbs Torque seems to be typical dyno result.
Horsepower - Intake/Exhaust:
1. ~88HP and ~106 Ft/Lbs with BAK, 2-1 Pipe, PC3USB, Dynojet dynotune.
2. http://www.5nolans.org/images/Nolan%20Dyno.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I instinctively feel that the exhaust tip is the problem. If the plug wire was not delivering the spark, I imagine the bike would run or sound funny. I think that the answer is to remove the short baffle from the the tip, and run the pipes open. What do you think?
 

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Have you checked to make sure the intake is securely attached? I noticed mine lacking and saw that the airbox had come slightly loose.
 

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Are you still running the same 1-1 wrapped shorty pipes shown in your gallery? Or are you running just the oem or S* header set with nothing past the Y collector? I did that in the garage late one summer night and the neighbors had my head on a stick for weeks. LOUD!


The only way to anser your question is yank the baffle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I got rid of the samsons in October, and went to the Speed* 2-1 headers (open). I wanted to knock down the noise a little, and create some back pressure, without a long muffled tailpiece, so I went with this resonated tip from Hedman Headers.





It knocked the sound down more than I expected. I was surprised for it being so short. I thought that I would be willing to accept that, to experience some gains in performance, but here I am... without.


I will have to pull the tank, and make sure that the stacks are on securely. They were before. I will also have to check that plug wire, and make sure it's getting a spark to the cylinder. If those two items are right, I'm gonna either knock out the resonator core from the tip, or have it cut off, and get an open tip. Duke called me tonight and suggested that I talk to Thunder Baffles, and find out what would work best from them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My bike has been dynoed by the only dyno shop within 3 hrs of here each time. The same guy has done each one (4 total).


They don't seem to be interested in or able to tune the bike. They just use their dyno to get numbers. I made them allow me to sit in this last time, and drop maps into my bike, to try to correct the awful A/F ratio I had. In one hour we got it into a better place, but it still needs work.
 

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R U using one of thesePC-approved tuners:









"Montana H-D, Buell Ducati"

5106 East Harrier

Missoula, Montana 59808

Telephone: 406-721-9913









Latus Motors HD

6815 E Trent

Spokane, Washington 99212

Telephone: 509-928-6811





And for satisfying the need to be ontour, these guys have Tuning-Link Software:






Arcane Worldwide Extreem Motorsports

428 Beaverhead Court

Great Falls, Montana 59405

Telephone: 406-761-2195
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for the info AZ Warrior. I talked to the Yammi Dealer that's done my dynos today, and asked them if they could actually tune the bike. They said no, in a round about kind of way.


The Missoula HD dealer is 2 hrs away, and the Great Falls shop is 3-1/2 hrs away. I've heard that the boys in GF are the best in the state. I may have to make a trip over when the weather gets a little warmer.


Bucky, that map looks really good! Thanks for that! I'll drop it in, and see what happens.
 

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Let me know how it works out. The place I take my bike to get dyno'd (twice, different pipes) It runs like a rapped ape!

I found the dyno sheet:

 

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Justice said:
There's also an email floating around for the PC3 Perfect Install and another version of the ECU adjustment. I had it, but can't find it... Anybody???


 

I think that Redhorse was the man who came up with that...? Try this???
 

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Some of the more importanf legacy 'gems' have been turned into a PDF file in the DOWNLOADS section (to the right of HOME and FORUMS).


http://rswarrior.com/files/folders/reference/default.aspx


Justice said:
There's also an email floating around for the PC3 Perfect Install and another version of the ECU adjustment. I had it, but can't find it... Anybody???
 

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bucky685 said:
Try giving my map a shot, See how it works out.


I think i got about 87 hp and about 110 tq


http://rswarrior.com/files/folders/pciii_maps/entry1019561.aspx

bucky, do you mind if I try that out. If weather works out for me I'm planning


on installing my Churchkey VBAK and AkitaDogs coil plate + AIS plate this weekend.


I'll have the same setup as you with thespeed* gen II exhaust. I've been checking the


maps out and was going to try several to see whats best.


Sorry Justice, not trying to stealyour post.
 
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