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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok guys so I've done oil changes on my warrior a number of times but this time something odd and disconcerting.
Yesterday took the bike for a 60 mile run. Then rode back home and parked my bike in my garage on level ground and let her idle for another minute and then switched her off. Then took an oil reading in the recommended way as described in the owners manual and the oil level was at exactly the FULL mark
on the dipstick. (yes with dipstick not screwed in but just resting on the oil filler hole) Also took a temp reading in the diagnostic mode...oil at 197F and engine at 250F

OK so this morning I decided it was time to change my oil as I had now done just over 3,000 miles since my last oil change. Could have run for another 1,000 miles according to the manual but hey! oil is cheaper then a new engine... Didn't warm up the bike first as it's full synth oil (Castrol Power1 Racing 10W50) well it's actually HC Synthetic (Hydro Cracked) and I decided I would give her lots of time to drain.
Removed oil filter and drained the oil into a pan plus drained the bit of oil in the filter into the pan also. Then removed 17mm drain plug on the righthand side
and also the 17mm drain plug on the lefthand side. Let it all drain into the pan for about 5 hours while I went and mowed the lawn and washed my car and made lunch and took the dog for a walk.
Ok so after 5 hours I came back and carefully poured all the old oil from the pan into empty 1 quart bottles I kept from my last oil change. Filled each of them up the indicator mark showing 1 Quart. OK that came to exactly 4.5 Quarts of old oil. By the way that old oil still looked good and felt good too...nice and slick just like it was when fresh. Right so now I take 5 fresh 1 Quart bottles of oil and pour some into the new oil filter till it's at the brim which is 0.25 Quarts. Right so I screw on the new oil filter and then put the drain plugs back with new crush washers and tighten to spec. Now I pour in 4.5 Quarts minus 0.25 Quarts
which is 4.25 quarts into the oil filler hole. First 3 quarts, close oil filler and start engine for a few seconds and give her a rev and then shut down. Now pour in the remaining 1.25 quarts. Ok all done. Same amount in as amount out. Old and fresh oil both at ambient temperature. I am now left with half a bottle of fresh oil in other words half a quart out of 5 quarts which means I put in 4.5 quarts of fresh oil. OK it all tallies up so far right....
So now I start up the bike and take her for a 15 mile ride and then back home, park her in my garage on level ground, let her idle for another minute and then switch off. Do a diagnostic temp check and oil is 165F and engine is 232F
Now I check the oil again by the same method as described before and what do I find????? The oil level is at the low level mark on the dipstick.
HOW CAN THIS BE?? WHO HAS THE EXPLANATION??
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY HAVE I NOW STUFFED UP MY MOTOR??? THE OIL PRESSURE LIGHT DID NOT COME ON AT ALL DURING THE RIDE AND THE MOTOR SOUNDED AS SWEET AND SMOOTH AS A BABY'S FART even after the ride whilst idling.
I hope the experts here have an explanation and will be able to tell me if any damage has probably now been done to the motor or not.
 

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1. No damage. It was on the low mark meaning still within limits (more or less).
2. You didn't add the oil correctly. While you did the drain and such correctly, there's a specific way to add oil which includes adding a specifc amount of oil, starting your bike for a brief amount of time, shut off, check level, and fill.
3. I've never heard of adding oil to the filter before mounting it. When you follow the procedure correctly to add oil, the filter is taken care of.

Just follow the instructions for checking the level and then fill up as appropriate. When I did mine a few months ago, I put in 5 quarts. I was confused, but I followed the process and that's what I ended up with. No leaks and I'm right where I should be on the dipstick (not screwed in).

I don't do the "what comes out is what goes back in" method as the system will tell you when it's at the right level.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
1. No damage. It was on the low mark meaning still within limits (more or less).
2. You didn't add the oil correctly. While you did the drain and such correctly, there's a specific way to add oil which includes adding a specifc amount of oil, starting your bike for a brief amount of time, shut off, check level, and fill.
3. I've never heard of adding oil to the filter before mounting it. When you follow the procedure correctly to add oil, the filter is taken care of.

Just follow the instructions for checking the level and then fill up as appropriate. When I did mine a few months ago, I put in 5 quarts. I was confused, but I followed the process and that's what I ended up with. No leaks and I'm right where I should be on the dipstick (not screwed in).

I don't do the "what comes out is what goes back in" method as the system will tell you when it's at the right level.
You didn't add the oil correctly. While you did the drain and such correctly, there's a specific way to add oil which includes adding a specifc amount of oil, starting your bike for a brief amount of time, shut off, check level, and fill.
Read my description again...I did do it like that. But I'm more worried about whether I might have caused any damage to my engine running it at the low level mark on the dipstick for 15 miles. I will add the rest of the half a quart tomorrow and see where that brings the level on the dipstick after another 15 mile ride. But even so the fact remains why am I half a quart short after draining 4.5 and putting in 4.5 quarts?
 

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You didn't add the oil correctly. While you did the drain and such correctly, there's a specific way to add oil which includes adding a specifc amount of oil, starting your bike for a brief amount of time, shut off, check level, and fill.
Read my description again...I did do it like that. But I'm more worried about whether I might have caused any damage to my engine running it at the low level mark on the dipstick for 15 miles. I will add the rest of the half a quart tomorrow and see where that brings the level on the dipstick after another 15 mile ride. But even so the fact remains why am I half a quart short after draining 4.5 and putting in 4.5 quarts?
1. No damage. It was on the low mark meaning still within limits (more or less).

You are correct about your adding process. It was hard for me to see in the long paragraphs you wrote.

This part was particularly confusing for me due to the typo, "Now I pour in 4.5 Quarts minus 2.5 Quarts which is 4.25 quarts into the oil filler hole."
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
1. No damage. It was on the low mark meaning still within limits (more or less).

You are correct about your adding process. It was hard for me to see in the long paragraphs you wrote.

This part was particularly confusing for me due to the typo, "Now I pour in 4.5 Quarts minus 2.5 Quarts which is 4.25 quarts into the oil filler hole."
🙃😀 All good...that should read minus 0.25 quarts....just glad you could reassure me about not having damaged my motor...Do we have an Oil Pressure Warning Light that comes on if oil pressure is too low? Checked the manual but no mention of such a warning light. Will Check Engine light come on with too low oil pressure?

still wondering about why the difference though.....:unsure: and how much oil will it take to bring her from the Minimum level mark to the Full level mark?
 

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When doing an oil change it is hard to account for oil that is inside the old oil filter. A good oil change with all the old oil out and a new oil filter should be 5 qts and that will put your oil level near the top.
 

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You filled the new oil filter before installing it and did not lose any oil? You are magic!! That said, +1 it's certainly not necessary. It's a bottom mounted horizontal filter and it's in the circuit after the filler tank.

You did good work and your post shows good focus. My guess is the difference is probably due to oil temperature expansion. You did not ride the bike to fully warm before draining. Didn't even start it. But after the change you rode it to fully warm. Now, before replying, picture the oil pumping through the system when hot. Then picture the oil settling in the system before the cold drain. Contrast these with the verbal commentary in the video about reading levels.

I agree it's very important to measure the oil volume coming out, to include the oil in a fully drained oil filter. That tells you if your bike is eating oil. It's very important to pour-in the manufacturer specified volume of fresh oil. In this case 4.3 quarts with a stock size filter, or with a long filter it takes 4.4 quarts. Even that is imperfect in real life. But it's certain that it requires draining the oil while it's hot/warm. That said, notice how these things sometimes seem to contradict. But do they really?

Or maybe it's only that the oil you bought was not full quarts, maybe the fill machine was off a little and ran until the next factory maintenance check.

The difference in the oil tank level between the two stick reading you took is not much motor oil volume. Do you have a gremlin bell? j/k
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
You filled the new oil filter before installing it and did not lose any oil? You are magic!! That said, +1 it's certainly not necessary. It's a bottom mounted horizontal filter and it's in the circuit after the filler tank.

You did good work and your post shows good focus. My guess is the difference is probably due to oil temperature expansion. You did not ride the bike to fully warm before draining. Didn't even start it. But after the change you rode it to fully warm. Now, before replying, picture the oil pumping through the system when hot. Then picture the oil settling in the system before the cold drain. Contrast these with the verbal commentary in the video about reading levels.

I agree it's very important to measure the oil volume coming out, to include the oil in a fully drained oil filter. That tells you if your bike is eating oil. It's very important to pour-in the manufacturer specified volume of fresh oil. In this case 4.3 quarts with a stock size filter, or with a long filter it takes 4.4 quarts. Even that is imperfect in real life. But it's certain that it requires draining the oil while it's hot/warm. That said, notice how these things sometimes seem to contradict. But do they really?

Or maybe it's only that the oil you bought was not full quarts, maybe the fill machine was off a little and ran until the next factory maintenance check.

The difference in the oil tank level between the two stick reading you took is not much motor oil volume. Do you have a gremlin bell? j/k
Hi AW and Hefty
Yes the fresh oil bottles were all filled to the correct level mark on the bottles. I didn't spill more then maybe a tablespoon of oil when installing the new filter pre-filled with fresh oil and I compensated for that when filling up with oil.
The day before I changed the old oil I did ride the bike as I mentioned in my post to operating temperature and took an oil reading after the ride and it showed up to the Full Level mark on the dipstick.
How much is the approximate difference by volume between minimum and maximum level mark on the dipstick? 1/2 a quart? 1/3rd of a quart? 1/4 of a quart???
Would you agree with Random-Guy that I would not have caused any extra wear or damage to my motor by going for a 15 mile run with the oil level showing at minimum level on the dipstick after the run?
Yes I have a gremlin bell
 

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I agree with random, based on your posted info there's no reason any damage could have occurred. There is a range for a reason.

You can identify the current oil level volume difference by measuring an amount into a graduated cup and pouring it in. But warm the bike and re-check the current oil level properly again first. Better accuracy.

Don't stress over this. It's all fine. You have not mentioned any smoke billowing out the exhaust or puddles on the floor. The Warrior uses a semi-dry-dump oil circuit. If you were losing oil you would know it for certain.
 

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The markings on the bottles are not exact and should not be used to measure the oil removed any more then "roughly". If you're within the range of oil marks on the stick you're good. Personally I don't like to be right at the top but rather in the middle.
The oil I use comes in 1 liter bottles. 4 bottles = 4.25 quarts. Perfect every time and no half quart sitting on the shelf.

Also most engines will run several quarts low without losing oil pressure or causing damage in the short term. If I checked oil on one of my vehicles and found I was a quart below low I would be more concerned about where the oil went than I would be about having run it like that.
And in most cases running 1 qt over full is worse that running 1 qt under.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
The markings on the bottles are not exact and should not be used to measure the oil removed any more then "roughly". If you're within the range of oil marks on the stick you're good. Personally I don't like to be right at the top but rather in the middle.
The oil I use comes in 1 liter bottles. 4 bottles = 4.25 quarts. Perfect every time and no half quart sitting on the shelf.

Also most engines will run several quarts low without losing oil pressure or causing damage in the short term. If I checked oil on one of my vehicles and found I was a quart below low I would be more concerned about where the oil went than I would be about having run it like that.
And in most cases running 1 qt over full is worse that running 1 qt under.
Hi Sandy...the bottles I use also come in liters but I converted it to quarts for the sake of most forum members here in the USA as they are more familiar with quarts. And I pour the oil from the bottle into a 1 liter measure jug marked in ML and very accurate so I know exactly how much oil I poured in and also how much came out as I measured the old oil as well in that jug. So I know with 100% certainty that I poured in 4.5 quarts which is 4.25 liters
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I agree with random, based on your posted info there's no reason any damage could have occurred. There is a range for a reason.

You can identify the current oil level volume difference by measuring an amount into a graduated cup and pouring it in. But warm the bike and re-check the current oil level properly again first. Better accuracy.

Don't stress over this. It's all fine. You have not mentioned any smoke billowing out the exhaust or puddles on the floor. The Warrior uses a semi-dry-dump oil circuit. If you were losing oil you would know it for certain.
Thanks AW...no I know I'm not loosing oil anywhere as there are no leaks at all...just strange that there is that small difference. What would the difference between minimum mark and full mark on dipstick be? 1/2 quart? 1/3rd quart? 1/4 quart? does anyone know?
 

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4.5 us quarts is ~4.26 liters, plus maybe some sticks on the plastic cup who knows, we are not there to see wassup brother and its for certain you are worried about an inconsequential occurrence. My vote is that you keep doing exactly what you are doing, and after a few focused oil changes you will discover wassup and can then clue us in. Sound good?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
4.5 us quarts is ~4.26 liters, plus maybe some sticks on the plastic cup who knows, we are not there to see wassup brother and its for certain you are worried about an inconsequential occurrence. My vote is that you keep doing exactly what you are doing, and after a few focused oil changes you will discover wassup and can then clue us in. Sound good?
All good yes ...no worries at all but please can anyone tell me what would the approximate difference between minimum mark and full mark on dipstick be? 1/2 quart? 1/3rd quart? 1/4 quart? This with oil at operating temperature
 

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My 2¢ - Synthetic oil does an amazing job of lining itself on metal parts especially when compared to petroleum based oils. Therefore, if I understand this correctly (and by all means correct me if I'm wrong here), you're far less likely to experience parts wear when the oil is low. Of course, there has to be enough oil to reach all the various moving parts in the first place. But if I were you, I wouldn't worry about damage to your engine, especially given that you have a very minimum amount of riding time before correcting the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My 2¢ - Synthetic oil does an amazing job of lining itself on metal parts especially when compared to petroleum based oils. Therefore, if I understand this correctly (and by all means correct me if I'm wrong here), you're far less likely to experience parts wear when the oil is low. Of course, there has to be enough oil to reach all the various moving parts in the first place. But if I were you, I wouldn't worry about damage to your engine, especially given that you have a very minimum amount of riding time before correcting the situation.
Great thanks but please can anyone tell me what would the approximate difference between minimum mark and full mark on dipstick be? 1/2 quart? 1/3rd quart? 1/4 quart? This with oil at operating temperature
 

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Oil filter and oils are a very subjective matter as everyone is very opinionated when it comes to this subject.
Looks like that filter seems to be well constructed. One thing to remember there are various models amongst the same manufacturer these days.
 

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I thought I posted this 24 hours ago but guess I did not hit 'save' hard enough lol. Anyway:

@ThingFish
None of us seem to know what volume of oil makes up the difference from low mark to high mark on the dip stick. I think I saw it in a manual somewhere once. But the information has no practical use in the real world so I for one don't care (sorry but its true brother). You are in a position to find out by measuring. Let us know what you find out. I'm not interested in siphoning out fresh springtime oil to find out something that I cannot use in any way. But I am interested in your findings on the matter!
 
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