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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am running a PCIII USB on my 2003 Warrior. I went to change the TPS with the updated part #3P6-85885-00-00 that supersedes the old TPS that was recalled. I wanted to make sure that the problems I was experiencing were not with the ECU or PCIII so I started going through all the wiring and I found a wire that had been cut and was still bare on the main wiring harness. I then pulled up the installation directions that came with the PCIII and realized that whoever installed the PCIII did not tap into the yellow wire directly on the TPS harness, but they actually found the TPS yellow wire on the main wiring harness close to the ECU and cut that wire and then directly ran the PCIII to that yellow wire without ever hooking the yellow wire that runs to the TPS to anything. I also noticed that one of the ground wires (double black ground wires tied to the frame) for the PCIII was not installed as the directions called for and was tapped into a black/blue wire coming out of the ECU with a quick connect.

I have ridden the bike about 2k miles with the wiring like it was before the TPS went bad and the previous owner had put a lot of miles on it with it wired that way as well. I am curious what the side effects of not having the yellow wire coming off the TPS actually connected to anything are if anyone can comment? I have also noticed that I can not communicate at all with the PCIII unless the bike is actually started and running. I have seen other people on videos showing that they only had to turn on the ignition to communicate (send/receive maps) with the PCIII and did not actually have to start the bike unless they need live data. Any comments on these issues?
 

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Look up the ECU PERFECT INSTALL.
Compare what you observe at your bike.
That was the corrective action for the PC3USB-Ver1.
Post a picture of the wire and tell us the color(s) and what ECU pin it goes to ( ECU PLUG body has molded numbers). Most often that is what it is. As for why it's not connected, dunno, but comparing to PERFECT INSTALL documents might answer it too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Look up the ECU PERFECT INSTALL.
Compare what you observe at your bike.
That was the corrective action for the PC3USB-Ver1.
Post a picture of the wire and tell us the color(s) and what ECU pin it goes to ( ECU PLUG body has molded numbers). Most often that is what it is. As for why it's not connected, dunno, but comparing to PERFECT INSTALL documents might answer it too.
Thank you ArizonaWarrior. I will do that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you ArizonaWarrior. I will do that.
I just reviewed some of the PCIII Perfect Install threads from the forum and found that the ground wires were done correctly and the Yellow wire was done incorrectly. I am surprised that having a Yellow wire from the TPS not connected to anything did not cause bigger problems. Again, I appreciate your input ArizonaWarrior.

I have the new TPS installed and calibrated but now I am having problems with my throttle not coming down after you let off on it. It appears that the throttle bodies are sticking and won't come back down to a normal 850 - 950 rpms range. You can physically see and hear them sticking and my PCIII shows the Throttle at 1% when I am completely off of it and it should be zeroed out. I am going to take the throttle bodies off the bike and clean and inspect. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
 

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Good job. What wire was it at the ECU (the one that was not connected to the fuel manager wire)? How is it connected now.

Also, after you set-up your new factory TPS, you need to RESET ZERO% THROTTLE AND 100% THROTTLE ON YOUR PC3USB FUEL MANAGER.
 

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I just reviewed some of the PCIII Perfect Install threads from the forum and found that the ground wires were done correctly and the Yellow wire was done incorrectly. I am surprised that having a Yellow wire from the TPS not connected to anything did not cause bigger problems. Again, I appreciate your input ArizonaWarrior.

I have the new TPS installed and calibrated but now I am having problems with my throttle not coming down after you let off on it. It appears that the throttle bodies are sticking and won't come back down to a normal 850 - 950 rpms range. You can physically see and hear them sticking and my PCIII shows the Throttle at 1% when I am completely off of it and it should be zeroed out. I am going to take the throttle bodies off the bike and clean and inspect. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
@Samurai_Warrior1 ... It's important that you removed the silicone seal that's not used for the later TPS ;)
It's possible this seal is stuck in the throttle body bore. Remove and readjust the new TPS as per this writers TPS 101 and adjust zero setting in your software.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Good job. What wire was it at the ECU (the one that was not connected to the fuel manager wire)? How is it connected now.

Also, after you set-up your new factory TPS, you need to RESET ZERO% THROTTLE AND 100% THROTTLE ON YOUR PC3USB FUEL MANAGER.
ArizonaWarrior, it was the Yellow wire that comes out of the TPS connector that was not hooked up to anything. Apparently whoever did the original install on the PCIII was familiar with the Perfect Install parameters, but it seems as if they got lazy when it came to tieing into the yellow wire and just decided to cut it, leave the original yellow wire going to the TPS unconnected to anything and tie the PCIII grey wire to the Yellow wire coming out of the ECU for the TPS. He did, however, tie into the black/blue wire correctly for the digital ground wire.

I am curious if you could point me in the direction of a post that has accurate instructions on how to reset the 0% and 100% on the PCIII fuel manager? I have read through a ton of threads and can't seem to find it. I used the TPS tool on the PCIII to make sure that the newly calibrated TPS was within range, but am not sure how to zero out the throttle position.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
@Samurai_Warrior1 ... It's important that you removed the silicone seal that's not used for the later TPS ;)
It's possible this seal is stuck in the throttle body bore. Remove and readjust the new TPS as per this writers TPS 101 and adjust zero setting in your software.
AlanH, that is a great point. I did check that and it was stuck in the throttle body bore. This might be my binding throttle problem. I am curious if you could point me in the direction of a post that has accurate instructions on how to reset the 0% and 100% on the PCIII fuel manager?
 

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@Samurai_Warrior1 .. I suggest you adjust the new TPS based on Ohms as described in the link and in the YFSM.
The throttle bodies should SNAP Closed on the Intake manifold. If they are sticking as a result of the R&R of the TPS then review your install.
The zero closed throttle setting can be found in your PCIII documentation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
@Samurai_Warrior1 .. I suggest you adjust the new TPS based on Ohms as described in the link and in the YFSM.
The throttle bodies should SNAP Closed on the Intake manifold. If they are sticking as a result of the R&R of the TPS then review your install.
The zero-closed throttle setting can be found in your PCIII documentation.
AlanH, that is too funny. I actually had your post for the TPS 101 printed and sitting beside me while I was calibrating. Using the TPS tool within the PCIII I was able to confirm that I was in fact in the correct range. I just need to get the info on how to zero out. I had been running really lean with a lot of deceleration backfire and tried to customize my PCIII map by adding a 15 value to the column for zero throttle from the 2000 rpm to 5000 rpm range per the recommendation of some Dyno experts on youtube. Within 2 seconds of sending the customized map to the PCIII the TPS went completely out and triggered a 15 engine code with a check engine light. I am pretty sure that it was already on its way out because I had been experiencing some intermittent bogging of the fuel that felt similar to running out of gas, but when it first started it would only happen at speeds around 85 mph at a steady throttle hold. I ran the test on the injectors and the fuel pump through the diagnostic mode on the Warrior and they all tested fine. I am hoping this will resolve my problems. I understand that the deceleration backfire may never completely go away.
 

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@Samurai_Warrior1,

Okay cool.

Plus, well, here's the thing. There is no data stream or tool within the Power Commander iii software that produces data confirming the YAMAHA TPS SENSOR is set-up correctly. That tell me your TPS is NOT set-up correctly. Unless I am misunderstanding. The systems are completely separate and talk different languages. To set-up your new TPS you need to use a meter set to OHMS as suggested. Its tricky. Go slow.

This misunderstanding might be creating conditions contributing to fuel load-up and pop-on-decel that are beyond the expected. When the TPS is right, then and only then can 0% and 100% be set. Start over.

When the time comes, for 0% and 100% see the Power Commander control center software manual in the fuel manager section of the Documentation forum.

One other thing:
The YouTube info suggesting those rpm settings you mentioned will not do what is needed. On this bike, to reduce pop or backfire on hard decel, copy the existing warm idle data line into the next lower rpm line. If your map's lowest populated data line is 1000 then copy it to populate the 750 line (or what ever rpm is next lower). This varies depending on the map RESOLUTION you selected for maps (or selected by who ever created the map).

The Control Center Software manual us worthy of a focused reading. It's gold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
@Samurai_Warrior1,

Okay cool.

Plus, well, here's the thing. There is no data stream or tool within the Power Commander iii software that produces data confirming the YAMAHA TPS SENSOR is set-up correctly. That tell me your TPS is NOT set-up correctly. Unless I am misunderstanding. The systems are completely separate and talk different languages. To set-up your new TPS you need to use a meter set to OHMS as suggested. Its tricky. Go slow.

This misunderstanding might be creating conditions contributing to fuel load-up and pop-on-decel that are beyond the expected. When the TPS is right, then and only then can 0% and 100% be set. Start over.

When the time comes, for 0% and 100% see the Power Commander control center software manual in the fuel manager section of the Documentation forum.

One other thing:
The YouTube info suggesting those rpm settings you mentioned will not do what is needed. On this bike, to reduce pop or backfire on hard decel, copy the existing warm idle data line into the next lower rpm line. If your map's lowest populated data line is 1000 then copy it to populate the 750 line (or what ever rpm is next lower). This varies depending on the map RESOLUTION you selected for maps (or selected by who ever created the map).

The Control Center Software manual us worthy of a focused reading. It's gold.
Thank you, ArizonaWarrior. I have the PCIII software manual and am reading through it. The tool for TPS on the PCIII that I was referring to is found by accessing the PCIII file menus and choosing "Power Commander Tools" and then choosing the "Set Throttle Position" option. This brings up a new small window that shows a low end range and a high end range for 0% to 100% throttle position. Honestly, I am not sure what values these represent because the low end of the range starts around 5800 and I know that is not volts or ohms. This PCIII option is not editable but just shows a range to stay into. I was under the impression that this was just another way to ensure that you TPS is calibrated correctly, but I am no Mechanic or Mathmetician so I may be completely wrong. As far as the deceleration backfire, I think I understand what you are saying and will make the fuel map adjustments as soon as I get the new TPS calibrated correctly. Again, I appreciate the help from everyone. Happy Independence Day!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So after wasting a lot of time I am realizing that the TPS that was sent to me was not the correct part number. I ordered the most recent part # 3P6-85885-00-00 which superseded the older TPS #5PX-85885-00-00 and 5PX-85885-01-00. After reviewing photos from forum members and parts websites I am realizing that they sent me the older part # 5PX-85885-01-00 that was used in the early Yamaha recall days to replace TPS part #5PX-85885-00-00.

Having said that, Should I calibrate this TPS using the Factory service manual requirements of
  • 4~6k Ohms (4000-6000) or 0.605-0.755 = 12.10-15.10% volts?
 

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@Samurai_Warrior1

About this:
"Set Throttle Position" option. This brings up a new small window that shows a low end range and a high end range for 0% to 100% throttle position."

Carefully revisit the steps to set 0% and 100%. What this does is it reads the TPS and determines where the POWER COMMANDER needs to recognize 0% and 100% throttle. So yes after the new TPS is installed and adjusted using a multimeter set to OHMS, THEN and only then use the power commander software to reset WARM IDLE as 0% throttle, and WOT as 100% throttle. The manual covers it.

So mentally disconnect these two stand-alone separate tasks. Set up the Yamaha TPS. Then swap mentally to the POWER COMMANDER task of teaching the power commander to recognize where 0% warm idle is when the throttle is let-go PLUS where 100% is when the throttle is WOT.

All this makes two separate tasks seem harder than they are. The TPS is tricky but not hard. The POWER Commander task is so so simple.

About your early/late TPS Question, look at what part you have. Observe and compare:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
@Samurai_Warrior1

About this:
"Set Throttle Position" option. This brings up a new small window that shows a low end range and a high end range for 0% to 100% throttle position."

Carefully revisit the steps to set 0% and 100%. What this does is it reads the TPS and determines where the POWER COMMANDER needs to recognize 0% and 100% throttle. So yes after the new TPS is installed and adjusted using a multimeter set to OHMS, THEN and only then use the power commander software to reset WARM IDLE as 0% throttle, and WOT as 100% throttle. The manual covers it.

So mentally disconnect these two stand-alone separate tasks. Set up the Yamaha TPS. Then swap mentally to the POWER COMMANDER task of teaching the power commander to recognize where 0% warm idle is when the throttle is let-go PLUS where 100% is when the throttle is WOT.

All this makes two separate tasks seem harder than they are. The TPS is tricky but not hard. The POWER Commander task is so so simple.

About your early/late TPS Question, look at what part you have. Observe and compare:
arizonawarrior, the TPS that I purchased was the most recent TPS part # 3P6-85885-00-00 and it ended up being defective. I now have TPS part # 5PX-85885-01-00 and wanted to see if you could confirm the right numbers for calibraton. I have read so many posts on the forum about calibrating the different TPS part numbers that I have confused myself.

Is this info correct for TPS part # 5PX-85885-01-00?

Testing Max Resistance -
with the negative wire on mutimeter going to the black wire and the positive wire on the multimeter going to the blue wire use the range of 4~6k Ohms (4000-6000).

Calibrating the TPS - with the negative wire on mutimeter going to the black wire and the positive wire on the multimeter going to the yellow wire use the range 0.605-0.755 volts or ...........This is where I need the Ohms range??
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@Samurai_Warrior1 .. I suggest you adjust the new TPS based on Ohms as described in the link and in the YFSM.
The throttle bodies should SNAP Closed on the Intake manifold. If they are sticking as a result of the R&R of the TPS then review your install.
The zero closed throttle setting can be found in your PCIII documentation.
alanh, the TPS that I purchased was the most recent TPS part # 3P6-85885-00-00 and it ended up being defective. I now have TPS part # 5PX-85885-01-00 and wanted to see if you could confirm the right numbers for calibration. I have read so many posts on the forum about calibrating the different TPS part numbers that I have confused myself.

Is this info correct for TPS part # 5PX-85885-01-00?

Testing Max Resistance -
with the negative wire on the multimeter going to the black wire and the positive wire on the multimeter going to the blue wire use the range of 4~6k Ohms (4000-6000).

Calibrating the TPS - with the negative wire on the multimeter going to the black wire and the positive wire on the multimeter going to the yellow wire use the range 0.605-0.755 volts or ...........This is where I need the Ohms range?? ArizonaWarrior was telling me that I should calibrate using ohms.
 

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@Samurai_Warrior1 ... The YFSM Ohms Calibration (OC) can be used for the 5PX-85885-01-00 TPS.
The OC adjustment is done with the TPS disconnected from the 3-Pin Hitachi connector as shown below.
You'll use the (2) two outer terminals with your Ohm Meter (NOT POLARITY SENSITIVE) to establish the TPS resistance. Mine is shown @ 5020 ohms.
The closed throttle adjustment calculation, taken from YFSM, was 0.14 x 5020 = 702.8 Ohms. My Target number was 703 Ohms. Actual closed throttle adjustment was 696 Ohms as shown in photo.
The closed throttle adjustment is accomplished using the Left Hand & Center terminal of the TPS as shown below. and again NOT polarity sensitive.
Also including photo of my tools of choice ;)

OUTER TERMINALS OF TPS SHOWN FOR OHMS CALCULATION

5.02 x 1000 = 5020 Ohms {using the 20k (20,000)} Scale on meter so need to correct by 1k


CLOSED THROTTLE ADJUSTMENT - Left Hand & Center Terminals of TPS for adjustment

Using the 2000 Ohm scale of meter for closed throttle adjustment for accuracy

MY TOOLS OF CHOICE TO DO A PROPER ADJUSTMENT WITH MADE UP JUMPER TERMINALS
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
@Samurai_Warrior1 ... The YFSM Ohms Calibration (OC) can be used for the 5PX-85885-01-00 TPS.
The OC adjustment is done with the TPS disconnected from the 3-Pin Hitachi connector as shown below.
You'll use the (2) two outer terminals with your Ohm Meter (NOT POLARITY SENSITIVE) to establish the TPS resistance. Mine is shown @ 5020 ohms.
The closed throttle adjustment calculation, taken from YFSM, was 0.14 x 5020 = 702.8 Ohms. My Target number was 703 Ohms. Actual closed throttle adjustment was 696 Ohms as shown in photo.
The closed throttle adjustment is accomplished using the Left Hand & Center terminal of the TPS as shown below. and again NOT polarity sensitive.
Also including photo of my tools of choice ;)

OUTER TERMINALS OF TPS SHOWN FOR OHMS CALCULATION

5.02 x 1000 = 5020 Ohms {using the 20k (20,000)} Scale on meter so need to correct by 1k


CLOSED THROTTLE ADJUSTMENT - Left Hand & Center Terminals of TPS for adjustment

Using the 2000 Ohm scale of meter for closed throttle adjustment for accuracy

MY TOOLS OF CHOICE TO DO A PROPER ADJUSTMENT WITH MADE UP JUMPER TERMINALS
AlanH, thank you for providing the clarification and the great photos. I had seen some of those in one of your previous posts, but this helped even more. I did have one question about making sure I am reading my multimeter correctly. I noticed in your photos that went you went to calibrate the TPS you set the multimeter to 2000 ohms and your reading was 696. When I set my multimeter to 2000 ohms I am getting a decimal in the mix and reading .700 for the calibration. I was not sure why your multimeter was getting a straight reading without the decimal?
Measuring instrument Rectangle Temperature Wrist Electronic device


I have been back and forth on the TPS calibration and have come to the realization that I have more than a TPS problem. My problems started about 600 miles ago when I started experiencing a sudden loss of power at speeds above 80 miles an hour when at a steady speed. It really just felt the same way as it would as if you had run out of fuel, but it never completely lost power and I had at least 2 gallons of gas. This problem was just intermittent at first and would come and go. The sputtering of power started happening at lower speeds and became more frequent. I was thinking that it was a fuel injector going out or clogged or maybe even the fuel pump getting ready to go out. When I put the bike into Diagnostic mode both the fuel injectors and the fuel pump tested fine. I am not sure that the Diagnostic mode is an accurate way to find intermittent problems?

Things really went crazy when I adjusted the idle using the idle adjustment screw under the seat. I have yet to get back to a working tuning on the bike since then. I have the Power Commander III USB version and have been zeroing out the throttle in the PCIII every time I recalibrate the TPS. At one point my check engine light came on with a code 15 indicating a bad TPS. Then I realized that I must have thrown the TPS out of synch when I made that adjustment.
I have 2 different TPS parts (both parts # 5PX-85885-01-00) and have tried both of them with the same results. I know that the first step in the testing and calibration process is to make sure that the idle adjustment is correctly set, but I have no way of knowing if it was correct because I could barely get the bike to run. I have been starting with idle adjustments using the cable under the seat, then calibrating the TPS trying to get as close to 700 ohms as I can, and then zeroing out the throttle position on the PCIII. I have had mixed results and am getting a lot of idle fluctuations like the ECU is trying to compensate and correct a problem.

This leads me back to the wiring on the PCIII. I bought the bike with 34K miles on it and it ran pretty well for about 2k miles. When I adjusted the idle and started having big problems with the tuning I went through the wiring and realized that the person who installed the PCIII tried to do the "Perfect Install" shown in other threads on this forum. The installer got the digital ground wire tied into the ECU wiring correctly, but when he was tieing the yellow wire coming from the TPS he just cut the wire under the seat and only ran the grey wire from the PCIII to the yellow wire coming out of the ECU. The yellow wire coming from the TPS was not linked to anything. I have no idea how the bike ran so well for a long period of time with it wired like that? I have since tied the yellow wire coming from the TPS to the yellow wire coming out of the ECU and then to the grey wire on the PCIII. This is crazy and I am interested to hear your ideas on this situation.

Thank you for taking the time to help out a new member.
 
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