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Ok, guys. After extensive searching on Delphi Forums RSWarrior Site I finally found the conversation I had with OrientExpress's Technical Guru, Steve. This is a reply from Steve to DarkStar (me) quoted as he stated.

Ok, there is still a good deal of misunderstanding out there regarding the TFI versus the PowerCommander.

The TFI unit will only (ONLY) allow you to make the mixture richer. If your bike is already running rich at some point, the TFI will only make it RICHER. Richer is not always better. Also, just making adjustments on the unit in your garage and seat of the pants feel does not mean you are making adjustments that actually will improve the performance of your bike. The "butt dyno" may be cheaper, but generally is inaccurate, especially when calibrating a fuel injected bike. The TFI might work for some bikes, in some situation, but in general it will never perform as well as the PowerCommanderIII.

The PowerCommanderIII allows you to make the mixture leaner when needed, and richer when needed, in precisely controlled points across the rpm range. Most of the maps available out there are 99.8% perfect for 99.8% of the rider's/bikes/mod's, and you do not necessarily need to have a custom map made. Many people choose not to, some people choose to have a custom map made.

The selling point of the PowerCommander is that it is a precision instrument.

Steve
[email protected]

Now, this is way back when I was deciding between the TFI vs. PowerCommanderIII and the only reason I was considering the TFI was based on cost saving. Thanks to Steve and Rob they convinced me of the correct and proper way to get the most out my Warrior's Performance. I hope this clears up any doubt's anyone has and that it helps you all make the correct decision.
 

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i dont know my butt is very accurate [/emoticons/emotion-4.gif]... Thanks for the note that helps out a lot. I guess for me i'll go with the commander as id rather have too much then not enough, just to be sure.
 

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When they dynoed my bike I got a fuel graph. It looked lean throught out the graph, in other words it only needed to be richened. I dont think the warrior will ever need to be leaned out.



quote:Originally posted by DarkStar

Ok, guys. After extensive searching on Delphi Forums RSWarrior Site I finally found the conversation I had with OrientExpress's Technical Guru, Steve. This is a reply from Steve to DarkStar (me) quoted as he stated.

Ok, there is still a good deal of misunderstanding out there regarding the TFI versus the PowerCommander.

The TFI unit will only (ONLY) allow you to make the mixture richer. If your bike is already running rich at some point, the TFI will only make it RICHER. Richer is not always better. Also, just making adjustments on the unit in your garage and seat of the pants feel does not mean you are making adjustments that actually will improve the performance of your bike. The "butt dyno" may be cheaper, but generally is inaccurate, especially when calibrating a fuel injected bike. The TFI might work for some bikes, in some situation, but in general it will never perform as well as the PowerCommanderIII.

The PowerCommanderIII allows you to make the mixture leaner when needed, and richer when needed, in precisely controlled points across the rpm range. Most of the maps available out there are 99.8% perfect for 99.8% of the rider's/bikes/mod's, and you do not necessarily need to have a custom map made. Many people choose not to, some people choose to have a custom map made.

The selling point of the PowerCommander is that it is a precision instrument.

Steve
[email protected]

Now, this is way back when I was deciding between the TFI vs. PowerCommanderIII and the only reason I was considering the TFI was based on cost saving. Thanks to Steve and Rob they convinced me of the correct and proper way to get the most out my Warrior's Performance. I hope this clears up any doubt's anyone has and that it helps you all make the correct decision.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am sorry to disagree with you Infanterene, but you are incorrect. I went for one Custom Map when I first purchased my BoomCan and my Dyno guy did a "stock pull" (this would be prior to mapping)and my fuel/air mixture was all over the place, rich in some areas and lean in others. I was running extremely rich in the higher rpm's when in reality you want to be running leaner (more air, less fuel) at the higher rpm's. I just had this conversation with my Dyno Technician on my second Dyno Adjustment. I have had this conversation with Steve @ OrientExpress. Dude, it all depends on where you live. I live in NH where I ride from sea level up to White Mountains of 3000ft above sea level. Altitude, temperature, humidity etc. has a lot of effect on how these fuel injected bikes perform. I am not claiming to be an expert here, but I researched and have listened to the experts. If anything I have been educated from them since they are technically sound/ educated in these applications or functions of fuel injected bikes. It is a constant struggle for the ECU to keep up with the contant changes in my driving conditions and the PowerCommander helps this by being a precision instrument that is programmed for my driving conditions. The powercommander is not about hp&torque, it is about getting the the best optimum performance possible out of these engines. That would include throttle responce throughout the entire rpm range, minimal fuel consumption. I have had this conversation with MaxWarrior and he concured with me when some guys jumped on me about my #'s. After I did my custom map I dropped in hp&torque, but I gained in power throughout my entire powerband(throttle responce)MaxWarrior had installed the Speedstar Kit and had the exact results after he did the custom map. He lost significant hp&torque (like 10hp&15ftlbs.) but he claimed the same results as I. This can be researched through Delphi Forum. Mind you, all my post have been deleted, but you can still read MaxWarrior's reply's. Talk Later!
 

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I am not incorrect. My graph never dipped below 13.8/1 and went as high as 15.3/1. I agree with your statement that altitude can have a great affect on the ratio. I live at sea level and all my ridding is done at sea level. Where I live and on my bike either the power commander or the tfi will give me simular results. By the way HP, Torque and 1/4 mile times are the way I judge optimum performance. i ride my bike like I stole it all the time.

quote:Originally posted by DarkStar

I am sorry to disagree with you Infanterene, but you are incorrect. I went for one Custom Map when I first purchased my BoomCan and my Dyno guy did a "stock pull" (this would be prior to mapping)and my fuel/air mixture was all over the place, rich in some areas and lean in others. I was running extremely rich in the higher rpm's when in reality you want to be running leaner (more air, less fuel) at the higher rpm's. I just had this conversation with my Dyno Technician on my second Dyno Adjustment. I have had this conversation with Steve @ OrientExpress. Dude, it all depends on where you live. I live in NH where I ride from sea level up to White Mountains of 3000ft above sea level. Altitude, temperature, humidity etc. has a lot of effect on how these fuel injected bikes perform. I am not claiming to be an expert here, but I researched and have listened to the experts. If anything I have been educated from them since they are technically sound/ educated in these applications or functions of fuel injected bikes. It is a constant struggle for the ECU to keep up with the contant changes in my driving conditions and the PowerCommander helps this by being a precision instrument that is programmed for my driving conditions. The powercommander is not about hp&torque, it is about getting the the best optimum performance possible out of these engines. That would include throttle responce throughout the entire rpm range, minimal fuel consumption. I have had this conversation with MaxWarrior and he concured with me when some guys jumped on me about my #'s. After I did my custom map I dropped in hp&torque, but I gained in power throughout my entire powerband(throttle responce)MaxWarrior had installed the Speedstar Kit and had the exact results after he did the custom map. He lost significant hp&torque (like 10hp&15ftlbs.) but he claimed the same results as I. This can be researched through Delphi Forum. Mind you, all my post have been deleted, but you can still read MaxWarrior's reply's. Talk Later!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Ride it like you Stole It! I do the same my friend, but without the PowerCommader you cannot get optimum perfomance out of the Warrior. Since you live in Florida and ride at sea-level, your performance needs are differ from mine. Having a custom map allows for one to get the best performance out of the Warrior that is possible. The TFI cannot do this. It "ONLY" richens the mixture and yes, you are wrong by saying the Warrior's do not need to be leaned out. If you know anything about racing, the higher rpms' depend on big air intake with the proper fuel consumption. More Air is Good! These larger VTwins run stronger with Big Air, hence BAK! Why would all these performance junkies push Big Air? Baron's, Thunder, Orient, Patrick.
Do the research, like I have. I never understood all this performance talk before I started asking, calling, reading etc.
 

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Darkstar, I agree with the fact that you need more air to make more power, but only if you add fuel to the mix. For example, if a bike is running lean restricting air will actually make more HP. Its all about having the optimum ratio, I preffer somewhere between 13.5 -13.80.

I respect these racers you are quoting, in fact I have used many Orient express parts on my GS1100 which has run 9.80 with my fat 265lbs but (stock wheel base). I am also planning on using their pistons and cams, I will do my own heads. I am not doubting what they say. Just that in my opinion for the average guy with bolt-ons the tfi is mower hp for dollar.

Darkstar talking on the phone with somebody that knows his stuff does'nt mean you do. I suggest you go and get a little race tuning experience. I know what little I know from 15 years of money racing both on and off the track, both cars and bikes.

I dont like being told that I am wrong so if ive come across too harsh, I apologize, but I know what am talking about. I may be only 31 but the Warrior is my 34 or 35 bike, I have never left one stock. Experience has taught me I how to get the best results with least money.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
First off, I want to apoligize if I rubbed you the wrong way. I can be harsh myself, never meant to insult you're intelligence over this subject, but I guess two hard headed individuals will probably never agree on certain subjects. Hearing that you have all that experience in racing and doing what you and I love doing to get optimum performance from these Warrior's you probably do know better than I in this subject. I never claimed to be an expert, but I have talked, read and most importantly have listened to individuals who do have the technical background. I for the most part am very technically sound and relativily new (5-6years) with being a performance junkie. My original point on this subject was to clear up any doubts or concerns for anyone on this forum who was having a problem choosing between the TFI or PCIII. Like myself back in Feburary 2002 I was torn between which direction to go with both products and chose the PCIII due to the advice I recieved from OrientExpress and Patrick Racing. I did not allow the cost savings to be a factor in my decision. I am still whole-heartly convinced I made the correct choice by choosing the PCIII. Like I said earlier, "I am sorry for any hard feelings that might have come out of this discussion".
 

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Dude, no hard fellings. I bet we agree on 2 things. 1. The Warrior rocks 2. Kdoom does'nt.[/emoticons/emotion-1.gif]

quote:Originally posted by DarkStar

First off, I want to apoligize if I rubbed you the wrong way. I can be harsh myself, never meant to insult you're intelligence over this subject, but I guess two hard headed individuals will probably never agree on certain subjects. Hearing that you have all that experience in racing and doing what you and I love doing to get optimum performance from these Warrior's you probably do know better than I in this subject. I never claimed to be an expert, but I have talked, read and most importantly have listened to individuals who do have the technical background. I for the most part am very technically sound and relativily new (5-6years) with being a performance junkie. My original point on this subject was to clear up any doubts or concerns for anyone on this forum who was having a problem choosing between the TFI or PCIII. Like myself back in Feburary 2002 I was torn between which direction to go with both products and chose the PCIII due to the advice I recieved from OrientExpress and Patrick Racing. I did not allow the cost savings to be a factor in my decision. I am still whole-heartly convinced I made the correct choice by choosing the PCIII. Like I said earlier, "I am sorry for any hard feelings that might have come out of this discussion".
 
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