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Discussion Starter #1
Why is it that so much confusion still reigns today on what the actual torque values for the rear axle nut and front pulley nut should be? Why does Yamaha not give clarity on the correct torque values? Has anyone approached them about this?
Why is it that confusion reigns whether the torque values in the service manual
for the axle nut and front pulley nut are correct or as many suggest have been swopped around?
What does Yamaha say? Or don't they say anything? Do they like their customers to be in the dark about this? Or don't they know themselves?
Can anyone say with 100% certainty what the correct torque values for these 2 nuts are?
 

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Almost two decades of proof tell us the numbers we now use are good. Several members, being Yamaha dealer technicians, chimed-in with their info. Yamaha Japan and Yamaha USA have never commented to my knowledge (and many have sent letters myself included). One of the bright bulbs around this joint noticed several other Yamaha bike manuals had these values reversed. Others noticed the torque values were too high for the application. Over time these fasteners have stopped coming loose, except for those who do not ask. So I'm happy you asked.

One thing you can do is to take a swing at it. I believe it's been awhile since Yamaha was written. To do that, just search around here for axle torque, and pulley torque. You will get data about other fasteners like the rear pulley and front axle but you won't be excluded from any needed info. You will read a lot and can formulate your letter. And please start a technical thread to keep your findings and notes so the rest of us, seeing your work, can comment and suggest and inquire. Maybe one more really in-depth knowledgable letter to Yamaha will yield results. Are you up to it!!?
 

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Hands on info.

Torque the rear axle nut to the service manual specified torque = the axle & threads in the nut will gall / strip you will need to cut the nut off with a whizz wheel & purchase a new nut, washer & axle.

Torque the front pulley to the advertised spec = the front pulley will come loose & possibly be damaged along with the shaft. One case that I know of the nut was lost the pulley & shaft were damaged the owner had the pulley welded to shaft so he could finish out bike week.

If you have a ? about your Warrior suggest asking here dealers are not that knowledgeable about a bike that has been out of production for a decade & the low pay grade personnel that answer phones for the manufacturer are oblivious to technical ?'s.
 

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Hands on info.

Torque the rear axle nut to the service manual specified torque = the axle & threads in the nut will gall / strip you will need to cut the nut off with a whizz wheel & purchase a new nut, washer & axle.

Torque the front pulley to the advertised spec = the front pulley will come loose & possibly be damaged along with the shaft. One case that I know of the nut was lost the pulley & shaft were damaged the owner had the pulley welded to shaft so he could finish out bike week.

If you have a ? about your Warrior suggest asking here dealers are not that knowledgeable about a bike that has been out of production for a decade & the low pay grade personnel that answer phones for the manufacturer are oblivious to technical ?'s.

I agree with Church and have very little faith in what a dealership or Yamaha will have to say. If you want to put a letter in to them then have at it and good luck, I truly hope you get the results you're looking for to put your mind at ease! I continue to have the utmost confidence it what is shared here on the forum and trust the wealth of knowledge and willingness to share it. After having gone through this front pulley issue a couple months ago and doing tons of research on the subject all is now good thousands of miles later thanks to the forum members. A little common sense, basic tools and good questions to the forum will provide all that's needed to take care of it.
 

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My friend installed a rear wheel from HD Rocker and had problems with wheel bearings. Bearings were broken after just a few kilometers away. He changed bearings and reduced the torque of the rear axle. Everything came to the fact that he could unscrew the nut of the rear axle almost by hand, without a tool. And nothing happened, the nut did not go anywhere. He travels a little, about 10,000 km in 7 years (maybe even less), so I consider his experience not a serious, just as a humor :D
But recently I saw information about a user of -05 warrior who had a nut losen .... in midle drive gear :eek: Of course there were a lot of things that suffered. So we need to periodicaly check. Sometimes **** happens :(
 

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ThingFish you have to remember a company like Yamaha that has it's hands in so many things and the immensity of this monster of a business cares very little of a previous model of a motorcycle that didn't sell too many models and has been removed for over 10 years.

One thing I will tell you is this forum has the best and most informed members that I have ever been a part of and in it's heyday I would have put them up against the Yamaha engineers themselves.
 

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This seems as best a place as any... could someone in the know please provide the front and rear torque requirements to save in our personal records?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 

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Why is it that so much confusion still reigns today on what the actual torque values for the rear axle nut and front pulley nut should be? Why does Yamaha not give clarity on the correct torque values? Has anyone approached them about this?
Why is it that confusion reigns whether the torque values in the service manual
for the axle nut and front pulley nut are correct or as many suggest have been swopped around?
What does Yamaha say? Or don't they say anything? Do they like their customers to be in the dark about this? Or don't they know themselves?
Can anyone say with 100% certainty what the correct torque values for these 2 nuts are?


Here`s some info for you.

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13-technical-discussion/231265-wheel-nut-bolts-torque-07-warrior.html
 

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No need to over think it....

I've been following the Guru's advice and Suggestions for yrs..
And on my second Warrior....

And any n all advice has never steered me wrong...

Mistakes happen and mistakes get caught
Unfortunately Yamaha like stated b4 is passed on the warrior.....

BUT THE MEMBERS HERE ARE STILL VERY DEDICATED AND VESTED IN THIS GREAT MACHINE....

LIKE STATED B4 THERE HAS BEEN MEMBERS THAT HAVE BEEN YAMAHA TECH'S AND SO ON.....

SO ASK FOR ADVICE AND FOLLOW IT
AND YOU'LL BE OK. .


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Listen guys I never said I don't trust the advice here and I have used some already over the few weeks I have been a member here..
I do trust the advice and goodwill and experience here. I am just very pissed of with Yamaha.
I asked why Yamaha is so slack arsed and non caring that they can't even bother to correct glaring mistakes in their service manual and I asked is that how much Yamaha cares about their customers.
Even on this forum some people seem to have different opinions about the correct torque values and so all I am trying to do is come to a clear understanding of which value to use so that I dont inadvertently strip my rear axle threads or suffer from a loose pulley. I went to three different Yamaha dealers and they all swear by using the specs in the service manual. When I told them the values are switched around they said they dont know about that and use the values as in the service manual and will continue doing so until Yamaha instructs them otherwise. YES! I am sending an e-mail to Yamaha in Japan about this as I am seriously pissed of about Yamaha's attitude. I dont care if the bike is a 10 year old discontinued model...it still sucks that Yamaha could not be bothered...they should have at least issued a directive about what the correct torque values should be. Or is it just that they don't know about it or that they they consider their info about the torque values in the service manual to be correct? I see some of you did contact Yamaha about this when it was first discovered that the torque values were suspect...did Yamaha ever respond? Guess not.
How was it established that the torque values in the service manual were actually switched around (axle nut torque = Pully nut torque and vice versa) Just through trail and error and experience? Did Yamaha acknowledge that the values are the wrong way round?
At the end of the day it could be a serious thing and even lead to the loss of life through incorrect torque. Will Yamaha then take responsibilty for it? Guess not hey.

OK so I will torque my rear axle nut to 85nm and my front pulley nut to 110nm
Everybody here in total 100% agreement that those are the correct values?
Thanks and have a nice day all of you or a nice evening of course depending where on this silly planet you happen to be.
Cheers
Fred
 

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Discussion Starter #12
almost two decades of proof tell us the numbers we now use are good. Several members, being yamaha dealer technicians, chimed-in with their info. Yamaha japan and yamaha usa have never commented to my knowledge (and many have sent letters myself included). One of the bright bulbs around this joint noticed several other yamaha bike manuals had these values reversed. Others noticed the torque values were too high for the application. Over time these fasteners have stopped coming loose, except for those who do not ask. So i'm happy you asked.

One thing you can do is to take a swing at it. I believe it's been awhile since yamaha was written. To do that, just search around here for axle torque, and pulley torque. You will get data about other fasteners like the rear pulley and front axle but you won't be excluded from any needed info. You will read a lot and can formulate your letter. And please start a technical thread to keep your findings and notes so the rest of us, seeing your work, can comment and suggest and inquire. Maybe one more really in-depth knowledgable letter to yamaha will yield results. Are you up to it!!?
yes!
 

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OK so I will torque my rear axle nut to 85nm and my front pulley nut to 110nm
Everybody here in total 100% agreement that those are the correct values?
Fred
These revised values aren't just used for the warrior but also the Road star's.
Not sure which group of guys actually discovered this but it's been this way since way back in 04' or before.

The Front drive pulley nut is usually set to 110ft/lbs (149nm)
The rear axle nut is usually set to 72ft/lbs (97.6nm)

People have also set the front drive pulley nut to 125ft/lbs (169nm)
And the rear axle nut to 85ft/lbs (115nm)
But Most set to the above torque measures. (110ft/lbs front pulley nut and 72ft/lbs rear axle nut.

There have been multiple rear axle bearing failures and front pulley nut issues with the factory stated specs through many different Yamaha model motorcycles as in Xv1900's, Road star's, ect.

Also, the Steering head bearing torque seems to be wrong also among many Yamaha models. From stated 2.9ft/lbs to 13ft/lbs which I figured out among Many different Yamaha models using the
Tapered roller bearings while other lighter models ised angular ball bearing style bearings.
 

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OK so I will torque my rear axle nut to 85nm and my front pulley nut to 110nm
Everybody here in total 100% agreement that those are the correct values?
No. For a nut of a rear axis I will not tell. In my practice, I always pulled 150nm before. The axis is still alive and the thread is in order. But 150nm in road conditions is not very convenient, it’s hard for me to pull and unwind it with my mobile tool. :rolleyes:
But for the drive pulley nut 110nm - not enough. I agree with the opinion above about 150nm+. And the red loctite!
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Well see what i mean? no consensus just many different opinions....which is correct? which is wrong? Lots of good intentions but no way to tell which is the correct answer.
The one says this the other one says that....no way to tell which is really correct. One says so many pounds torque another says no thats too much another says no that's too little.....The one says Red Loctite the other says Blue and yet another says none at all.
And if Yamaha does know the correct answer they obviously couldn't care less to provide it to us.
 

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Re: Sprocket Issue's (anyone else?)

12-11-2004, 01:48 pm Middle Shaft Replacement '04'
at 8700+ miles i did a routine inspection of the drive pulley when replacing my worn rear tire. I discovered the pulley retaining nut and pulley to be loose and the nut was held in place from backing off by the crush retaining washer. There was an abundance of rusty residue which is metal fatigue and the pulley belt was riding on the outside edge of the drive pulley. The inner surface of the drive pulley still had the factory paint. Based on this initial inspection i took the following worn parts to my dealer: Drive pulley, collar-spacer (behind pulley), nut & crush washer and requested warranty replacement. My bike is not yet one year old! The dealer was agreeable to let me do the warranty repair myself since the bike was on my lift to mount a new tire. I had to wait two weeks for the collar because it was on national back order. Imho it is imperative to replace this collar. When the pulley loosens up the preload between the middle shaft bearing inner race and the pulley is lost and the related parts begin to spin on the shaft and cause wear as well as the splines wash out eventually, etc. In my case the middle shaft was worn more then the drive pulley but i didn't recognize it at first!
When it came time to do the repair i found upon further investigation that the middle shaft was no good. I also replaced the middle shaft and small thin o-ring between the bearing and collar that seal fluid from the transfer case. This seal has been forgotten by many a service tech during the recall process! I paid out of pocket for the middle shaft, o-ring & gasket but it's not worth wasting words over. I didn't trust the dealer's tech to do the proper repair and as such performed the replacement myself. Imho the factory torque of 72ft/lbs was not enough force to tighten the pulley properly because of the design of the original retaining washer. The replacement washer is a different mat'l and design. I fabricated a special spanner tool to properly torque the pulley nut without using the brakes. There is no harm in over-torquing since the pressure is being applied between the inner bearing race only and pulley. The other end of the middle shaft floats in a bearing in the transfer case. I progressively torqued the nut to 125ft/lbs without any problem. The output shaft of the transmission uses the same nut and crush washer. This nut was not loose during the rebuild. I also replaced its washer and increased the torque value to 90ft/lbs just to be safe! Neither of these nuts are adjusting preload like front wheel auto tapered bearings. Currently my drive belt is running down the center of the drive pulley after 80 miles!
I agree with you and others that yamaha has a real problem with their current drive pulley design. The thread, nut & spline are not generous for this final drive. There should be a recall..lol.
I never perceived any stretching during the torquing process of the drive pulley retaining nut from 72-125ft/lbs. I'm totally confident with my repair procedure and parts replacement. I'm not confident that the repair will last because of the deficiency of the current design. The proof is in the pudding and only time will tell.
Some jpegs of failed middle shaft, tool & transfer case.

image insert:


image insert:


image insert:

 

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Rear tire torque - 101

04-25-2008, 06:33 pm
The Final Torque Value is achieved with the Rear Wheel firmly on Solid Ground :) (Not in the Air on Lift)
here's my .02 on rear axle torque 101


i'm including the rear wheel break-down from the parts fiche as well as various jpeg photos to explain the assy as i understand it:



the way the rear wheel is held in position is by preloading of all the inner races via their respective adjacent spacers, from right to left -

caliper bracket-not shown (#27, 5, 16, 15, 27)

bearing #2 should be press fit completely into the wheel bore up to the shoulder. The spacer #5 is slight longer than the step in the wheel by approx .005~.010", my educated guess, and prevents the tandem brg set #4 from contacting the machined step in the rear wheel. These tandem brgs are allowed to float axially on their o.d.'s by design.

The 6-damper cushions #6 are taller than the cavity of the wheel & cushioned hub when assembled as can be seen by their dotted finger prints in the photos below.

The factory torque value of 110 ft~lbs is initially required to properly seat (compress cushions in cushioned hub) all the involved parts when new or if disassembled imo
.
If the wheel is removed and the pulley & hub is left intact then a lesser torque can be used imo.

I have observed that achieving the 110 ft~lb torque to be more difficult after removing & reassembling the cushioned hub for a new rear tire change. The reason being is that the 6-damper cushions #6 must be compressed to finger print into a new position.

cushioned hub & 6 dampers #6



tandem brg set #4 that float axially & note the faint dotted finger prints from the dampers



dotted finger prints from dampers



dotted finger prints from dampers



note finger prints in wheel cavity and the stepped machined area in the wheel. The tandem brg's do not seat on step as discussed above because of the spacer #5



bearing #2 should be press fit completely into the wheel bore up to the shoulder

 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
So obviously nobody really knows that much is obvious...lots of good intentions and advice but no hard cold facts just a lot of yaddah yaddah and blah blah blah
Guess I will just follow my own instincts here and hope for the best. Here is one of many threads on this forum about belt tension and alignment that illustrates that mostly it's a guessing game and hope for the best kind of results...no hard proven facts...everyone has a different experience and opinion it seems...pot luck and hope for the best. Make no mistake though...I am not blaming you guys here on the forums...I know you all mean well and want to help but we are all floundering, guessing and wallowing around in the dark and the murk it seems to me because Yamaha does not care to give guidance and correct instructions. I guess I will sell my Warrior of as soon as possible while she is still problem free and running well and get myself a ride where there are clear and correct instructions regarding maintenance and torque values and such stuff. Pity though because I really did like her looks and the way she handles and so on but no use stuffing around pot luck and hoping for the best.

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13-technical-discussion/181330-belt-alignment-vs-tire-alignment.html
 

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What "cold hard facts" are you looking for?
Are you an engineer?
Some sort of metallurgist?
I am a little confused on what you are looking for on a forum of enthusiast who just happen to love the same item.
You have many good life experiences of people with failed items who have come up with conclusions that worked, have worked and continue to work.
This site had many prominent people come through here years ago and drop plenty of knowledge along the way.
If you want things set in stone with testing of theories, materials used and a conclusion...........well hold your breathe.
Also good luck with Yamaha sending you a revised service manual with the correct torque values.

So obviously nobody really knows that much is obvious...lots of good intentions and advice but no hard cold facts just a lot of yaddah yaddah and blah blah blah
Guess I will just follow my own instincts here and hope for the best. Here is one of many threads on this forum about belt tension and alignment that illustrates that mostly it's a guessing game and hope for the best kind of results...no hard proven facts...everyone has a different experience and opinion it seems...pot luck and hope for the best. Make no mistake though...I am not blaming you guys here on the forums...I know you all mean well and want to help but we are all floundering, guessing and wallowing around in the dark and the murk it seems to me because Yamaha does not care to give guidance and correct instructions. I guess I will sell my Warrior of as soon as possible while she is still problem free and running well and get myself a ride where there are clear and correct instructions regarding maintenance and torque values and such stuff. Pity though because I really did like her looks and the way she handles and so on but no use stuffing around pot luck and hoping for the best.

https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/13-technical-discussion/181330-belt-alignment-vs-tire-alignment.html
 

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There are only opinions. Of course. Someone believes the opinions of others, someone believes the manual. The manual may be wrong. It was written by people. People tend to make mistakes. The surest experience is your personal one, you know it, you cannot lie to yourself. If you do not have your own experience, it is worth looking at the experience of those who have been using it for a long time and who have great mileage. Well, or wait for the revelations from the yamaha))) There are no more ways.

There is! Sell a motorcycle, buy a motorcycle of a different brand and you can complain to it, get acquainted with opinions on another resource. Itd, a new cycle)))
 
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