Hey Alan, You probably already know this, but you could check for stored codes. The TPS BIT coverage is only for shorts, opens, and stuck so it may not show anything. I suspect you have a worn spot on the resistor element. You could use diagnostic code 01 (See service manual) and do a slow throttle sweep while monitoring the ECU converted value, or use a DVM with the bike powered up, connected to the pot wiper. Good luck

 

Wouldn't a quick check with an ohm meter confirm your suspicions Alan? By using the center wire on the tps switch as your reference and one of the other wires connected to the other end start twisting the throttle slowly the numbers should increase or decrease in order and be consistent and not be jumping all over the place. I'm pretty sure you know this already just inquiring. Sounds like either the cps or the tps.

 

My same thought....dont look past the CPS. Those are the same pre-conditions I experienced with my first & second CPS Failure.

quote:Originally posted by xharleyrdr

Wouldn't a quick check with an ohm meter confirm your suspicions Alan? By using the center wire on the tps switch as your reference and one of the other wires connected to the other end start twisting the throttle slowly the numbers should increase or decrease in order and be consistent and not be jumping all over the place. I'm pretty sure you know this already just inquiring. Sounds like either the cps or the tps.

 

when My TPS went out, I had the same VIOLENT reactions. My TPS ohm'd out ok, but the voltage values were wrong. Was dumping gas into the front cylinder while suppling gas to the rear cylinder. Check you plugs out, my front one were black and fouled, rear ones looked good. Dealer had to change out plugs twice, after replacing the TPS. Would check all your vacuum, coil, and electrical connections first, but your symptoms bring back nightmares to me. Had all my work done under extended warranty, and my gas mileage improved too.

 

Since Alan has correlated this to a specific throttle position (independent of RPM) I'm leaning towards TPS. Its almost always better to measure the output voltage vs. resistance checks. By checking the voltage you end up getting better test coverage as well (i.e. wiring, ECU ref. voltage, thermal issues, etc..) since the sensor is actually operating.

 

Nice info.
Keep us posted

Kyle

 

Shane....i don't recall reading anything in the Factory Manual that provided trouble shooting data in voltage units but it's necessary to recalibrate position of sensor using resistance which is common.I agree with you that it's better to measure the output voltage vs. resistance. The failure occurred in 100+degF ambient conditions so it's possible that temperature has a major factor in the breakdown of the insulation of the resistor, etc.Haven't even touched the bike since returning Monday to do any type of trouble shooting as the bike was to hot and so is Corona, CA.Even without testing, i just don't see what else it can be.565 miles over (2) days and only failing at the exact same throttle position can't be a CPS IMHO, but i've been wrong before! The ride through Cedar Breaks at >8000ft elev in near freezing conditions didn't cure the problem eitherBTW, the bike now has >19,100 miles and had never missed a heart beat until this trip and maybe stalled three times since new and never an idle adjustment at all [^] ... if i'm wrong i won't be doing the Tahoe trip with the LA group this month [/emoticons/emotion-6.gif]
quote:Originally posted by BlackStar

Since Alan has correlated this to a specific throttle position (independent of RPM) I'm leaning towards TPS. Its almost always better to measure the output voltage vs. resistance checks. By checking the voltage you end up getting better test coverage as well (i.e. wiring, ECU ref. voltage, thermal issues, etc..) since the sensor is actually operating.

 

Alan, you're right about the units, it will be an angle 0 - 125 degrees. Pg 6-14 in the manual.
Iv'e been wanting to look at mine as well. Intermittently, I have a very very narrow dead spot right off of idle. Not a big deal since it is so intermittent and I don't spend much time there. Has done it since new.

 

Thanks for the PM Alan.Now my bike is doing some strange things again.
It cuts out at approx. 2800 to 3100 rpms.I checked all the conn. under seat all looks good.I cleaned some corrosion from the neg. batt. term. today.then rode it and now my speedo that WAS working fine has developed a new prob.
Now when I ride the speedo does not go past 0 and no miles register when I'm riding...but when I pull in the clutch while cruising and coast, and let the rpms drop to idle suddenly the speedo reads accurate and miles will again start to add up as I coast with clutch pulled in.

Is my bike cutting out at certain rpms and my speedo and mile meter not working related?

This is starting to get annoying,I thought I had all this solved but now it's worse than ever.
[V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V][V]

 

Alan I may have found the problem that was messing with my bike and it may be something to look at with yours.
The white 3 prong connection for the Speed Sensor under the seat was not getting a good connection.
It has a sky-blue,gray and white on one side And White w/yellow stripe,black w/ blue stripe and blue on the other.#22 in the wiring diagram.
Well the Black with blue stripe and the sky blue wires are in line with the
#16(throttle pos. sensor)
#17(intake air pressure sensor 1)
#18(intake air pressure sensor 2)
#19(atmospheric press. sensor)
#20(Cyl. ID sensor)
#21(lean angle cut off switch)

And just the black with blue stripe also goes to
#23 (intake air temp sensor)
#24(engine temp sensor)
#25(oil temp sensor)

I pulled the iridium plugs before I checked the elect. conn. and they where all black and sooty.
I put in the stock plugs.
Now my speedo works normal and bike runs great again.
I hope this solves my problem for GOOD and MAYBE it is a place to try for you.
Good luck and post your results.

 

I had expected that i would be updating this post with step by step DIY photos of the R&R and that i would be triumphant but i'm saddened to say that the new TPS didn't resolve the problem at all. [:0]
BTW, no PC3 on my machine!The CPS ohms out at 311 and i've also visually checked for bare wires, grounds and all known associated connections as well as CruiseMissile's findings.I'm still baffled as to the engine breaking up at a specific throttle position in all gears.
I've not yet pulled the plugs but have checked that the wires are tight on the plug connectors. Have checked battery leads and have cycled through diagnostics checking all sensors and no fault codes are present.Is it possible the CPS can cause this failure at a specific throttle openning?Will R&R the CPS this weekend based on the many problems others have had with this componentIf that's not it i'm not going to do the Tahoe/Reno run next Friday. [xx(]

 

Hi Alan,
My 1st & 2nd CPS Failure did the exact same. It would cut out at all speeds or at different throttle positions in all gears. During the whole time I was experiencing this problem I did not once ever get an error code till my bike finally just died for good. When it died for the last time the infamous Code 12 was flashing. After I pulled the CPS there was no obvious damage to the sensor, like broken solder or frayed wires. This went on for months during my 1st CPS Failure before it finally died. It had me pretty flustered. I went through all the same, like checking plugs, connections, changing the battery, cleaning etc. Prior to my 2nd failure, the same S$%^ started happening. I did not screw around. I changed the CPS the following week and the problem went away. My 3rd CPS Failure happened right on the highway on my way to Warrior Fest 1 with other Warrior Riders following. That time it just went from 85 mph to dead on the side of the road. This failure was a broken solder connection right at the sensor. No Fun.

 

Ed,
Thanks for your reply....keep in mind that mine is cutting out at always the same throttle position in all gears at various speeds & rpm. That's why i thought it was for sure the TPS being that it's the same throttle position. When i removed the old TPS i could hear the wound resisitor moving inside the case and thought for sure i had the problem, but not the case.I'm replacing the CPS this afternoon with blind faith and will report back.This is what i categorize as an exercise in/of futility
quote:Originally posted by DarkStar

Hi Alan,
My 1st & 2nd CPS Failure did the exact same. It would cut out at all speeds or at different throttle positions in all gears. During the whole time I was experiencing this problem I did not once ever get an error code till my bike finally just died for good. When it died for the last time the infamous Code 12 was flashing. After I pulled the CPS there was no obvious damage to the sensor, like broken solder or frayed wires. This went on for months during my 1st CPS Failure before it finally died. It had me pretty flustered. I went through all the same, like checking plugs, connections, changing the battery, cleaning etc. Prior to my 2nd failure, the same S$%^ started happening. I did not screw around. I changed the CPS the following week and the problem went away. My 3rd CPS Failure happened right on the highway on my way to Warrior Fest 1 with other Warrior Riders following. That time it just went from 85 mph to dead on the side of the road. This failure was a broken solder connection right at the sensor. No Fun.

 

We'll just have to make sure you get another copy of that memo.....you see, we're using new cover sheets on the TPS reports.

 

What are you talking about [?]
quote:Originally posted by ridingrules

We'll just have to make sure you get another copy of that memo.....you see, we're using new cover sheets on the TPS reports.

 

Kennith ,what is the frequency[?] WTF over!quote:Originally posted by ridingrules

We'll just have to make sure you get another copy of that memo.....you see, we're using new cover sheets on the TPS reports.

 

Crankshaft position sensor (CPS) black wire was fractured/severed completely and i suspect at certain speeds throughout the gears would loose continuity from the frequency of the motor vibrations.
Strangely, it appeared to act up at the exact same throttle position in all gears [:0] [B)]I didn't recognize the broken conductor until i removed the sensor and even then i didn't trust what i saw because i had to use an impact screw driver to remove the (2) sensor mounting screws that are assembled with red thread lock. Thought maybe the shock of breaking the screws loose severed the wire.Road tested the bike this evening and it's running just great....the new throttle position sensor appears to have help eliminate some of the cold starting popping and the idle is smoother.Tahoe/Reno here i come....[

]THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!

 

Thats from the movie office space or something like that......quote:Originally posted by ridingrules

We'll just have to make sure you get another copy of that memo.....you see, we're using new cover sheets on the TPS reports.

 

I'd say that qualifies for reporting the CPS failure since some are failing at the wiring.

Glad you got it going.

 

Awesome Alan!

 

Very useful post Alan. Glad that you got it sorted. Ed was on the button suspecting the CPS.

 

Another CPS failure...imagine that.

 

Use High Temp Silicone on the back of the CPS to help hold the wires when you reinstall. It may not be where yours failed last time but it will eventually. I now have over 6k on my latest CPS and it is still working "Knock on Wood".

 

Edited:
I encapsulated the wires on the back of the sensor with Permatex #174 Ultra Gray RTV Silicone Gasket Maker after verifying that both wires were not under any stress.

My bikes CPS started acting up at 18,735 miles and never broke down!

The BLACK wire at the soldered connection severed just like Terminaatrs SENSOR

I R&R the CPS with a new Yamaha part and cover gasket and replaced the (2) OEM phillips head screws with stainless steel socket head cap screws using red thd lock.
The RTV Silicone was applied after the CPS was installed in the left engine case to accelerate the installation time. Essentially, it is similar to what is shown in this thread:

Crank position sensor / Pickup sensor: https://www.rswarrior.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38689

Oh.... no time for photos was trying to get bike back on the road for Tahoe/Reno event

EDITED: 1/21/09 Enclosing CPS photos below after 1-year of service before replacing with NEW Factory Updated Part

Silicone bridge used to prevent Bracket vibration of the pick-up coil and terminals encapsulated w/Permatex Grey

quote:

Originally posted by JamesD

Use High Temp Silicone on the back of the CPS to help hold the wires when you reinstall. It may not be where yours failed last time but it will eventually. I now have over 6k on my latest CPS and it is still working "Knock on Wood".

 

Glad you found your Gremlin. Make sure you follow up and report failure as per BlackStar's sticky. [/emoticons/emotion-5.gif]